cause of DP SteelMaster stovepipes?

[E Mont]

I would never have expected trouble (... and we will query DP tomorrow about options/solutions), and I would have guessed an unmodified, out-of-the-box SteelMaster to run if fed factory ammo. But two kinds of ammo were used (Winchester 124 g. WB and 124 g. UltraMax) with the same result - repeated stovepipes (2 or 3 per magazine).

At our Dec. match, a proud shooter showed-up with her new 9mm DP SM and was hoping to have moved away from the functioning problems she had experienced with previous, major caliber handguns, but it was not to be. Veteran shooters are considering it may be sprung so lightly it needs a diet of only the lightest pf ammo, but I would not expect that to be the case.

If anyone has experience with this model or suggestions, we would appreciate your input.

Muchas gracias ~ John

Edited December 12, 2010 by E Mont

[G-ManBart]

Honestly, I wouldn't expect any factory Open gun (SM, Trubor, GM) to runn 100% out of the box...just the way it is.

Stovepipes are usually more likely too much spring...the slide isn't going back fast enough to really hit the case on the ejector. 2011s in 9mm can be very picky about what they run. You also have to be absolutely certain that the cases aren't hitting the scope mount, and bouncing back into the ejection port as the slide is closing...extremely common. It may require a longer ejector, lighter springs, ejector tuning, or do what most folks seem to be doing for 9 Major guns...run a 90* scope mount.

Edited December 12, 2010 by G-ManBart

[E Mont]

Honestly, I wouldn't expect any factory Open gun (SM, Trubor, GM) to runn 100% out of the box...just the way it is.

Stovepipes are usually more likely too much spring...the slide isn't going back fast enough to really hit the case on the ejector. 2011s in 9mm can be very picky about what they run. You also have to be absolutely certain that the cases aren't hitting the scope mount, and bouncing back into the ejection port as the slide is closing...extremely common. It may require a longer ejector, lighter springs, ejector tuning, or do what most folks seem to be doing for 9 Major guns...run a 90* scope mount.

Interesting G-ManBart.

I have run quite a few different # springs in stock and open guns and I would guess this spring is only 7-8#, but I may be way off. I am interested in DP's std. for the SM. (and BTW - she did buy DP-tuned mags)

And I did wonder if the scope mnt. did show any sign of brass beating. I will ask. And the 90 degree mount would be interesting to see.

Thanx.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I would clean the pistol very well then oil the crap out of it. It may still be very tight and need more rounds through it. I would try a 7lb ISMI recoil spring and see if that helps. I shot with a guy a while back who had a new Steelmaster and it was very tight. He shot it alot and after 1000 rounds he did not have any problems at all. I can't remember if it was stove piping or failing to extract? Just a couple of things to look at. Thanks, Eric

[pgh george]

John,

Did any other shooter there, shoot this gun

and have the same result ?

I loaned my Steel Master to a friend at a shoot and

she had the same results as your proud new Steel Master owner.

Our findings were - not enough grip pressure.

She tightened her grip and the problem was solved.

Hope this helps.

[E Mont]

Y-o-u g-u-y-s a-r-e g-o-o-o-d!!! Thanks for all the tips - all sound well worth employing.

I will check on the clean & oil tip. I do have some light ISMI springs for her as well as an order going to Brownells soon. As for the tightness, I was very surprised at the ease of slide operation. This felt like a pistol that had already been broken in. Not sloppy in any way, but smooth. All is worth doing, if it hasn't been done already.

And I have wondered about the grip thing also. She has admittedly been having chronic malfunctioning with a variety of guns. We will try another shooter and see if they have similar results. I attempted that the other night but the w/annual meeting & feed, there was no convenient time. I think this avenue has 'serious potential'. I will work with her a bit on a power grip.

Again ... thanks for you time, consideration, and experience. I hope we can get to the bottom of this soon. She is a real trooper and that light, soft-shooting gun would/could really fit her well.

~ john

... and if it is limp wristing or a weak grip, what direction would you expect the gun tuning to go?

[pgh george]

... and if it is limp wristing or a weak grip, what direction would you expect the gun tuning to go?

If the gun runs with other shooters, then I think - the issue would be with the

Shooter not the gun.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Another thing to try would be some 115 grain bullets. My 12year old son shot the Glock 34 on our practice day. I had loaded up some 147's at 126.5PF for him. It did not cycle the pistol well for him. I then tried some of my 131PF 147's and the same problem. I then tried some 121's at 131PF same thing. Lastly I tried some 115's at the 131PF and they worked perfectly for him. I even snuck in my 147 loads on the mag change and the problem came back. Give some Winchester white box a try also. Thanks, Eric

[RocketCity1911]

I have a DP Steelmaster and did have some stovepipes the first few times out. I cleaned it real good and put Slide Glide Lite on it. Problems went away. If I go over a 1000 rounds without cleaning it, the problem can show up again. I've put 5000+ rounds through it in the past 9 months. I shoot 115's and 95's mostly at around 125pf. Very soft feeling and a pleasure to shoot I have load info using Clays posted in the Steel Challenge and 9mm reloading topics.

[calishootr]

oil the crap out of the gun, new guns tend to be tight as hell, and friction adds o the ejection problem, ALOT of people run their guns with minimal oil, hey, its reciprocating metal parts for cryin out loud, you wouldnt run your car without oil would you??? i used to run an indoor shooting range, and people would come in with bone dry guns(best excuse i heard was, he didnt want to get oil on his shirt when he carried it)

as others have opined, since the owner is a female, there 'might' be a grip issue, pass it offto someone of bigger stature and grip and see if it goes away, check clearance on the scope as well, take a piece of masking tape and put it on the bottom ofthe scope and see if its hitting it on the way out, the other, is like Bart said, maybe re-spring it(lighter) and see if it goes away there....best of luck to her, nuttin more frustrating than to have a blaster that doesnt behave

Edited December 13, 2010 by calishootr

[E Mont]

Tanks guys! I like the way this is going.

If I could ask for one thing for her it would be min. recoil, so the lighter bullets would be great, I thimk. I don't know of a source offhand for same, but I am sure we can find ... maybe in frangible if they don't cost an arm-and-a-leg.

BE's light Slide Glide I have. And I have some 90 g. Royal Arms (English) ammo that is (no poo poo) just as clean after it is fired as before it was loaded! How is that possible? I think my primer-fired rubber bullet practice rounds left at least some soot inside the case. But these brass come out of the gun shiny inside and out. Does anyone use an available powder that would do the same?

Ooops. changed topics. my bad. sorry. i quit.

~ john

[818-DVC]

E Mont is your SM factory box stock or was it Dawson tuned? I shot a SM with both my 90gr 130 PF loads and WWB that was factory box stock w my mags and I couldn't believe how tight the frame to slide fit was. Both loads were giving us feeding and ejecting issues. Worse with my loads.

We borrowed a mag of major PF ammo and it cycled the whole mag perfectly and left a nice pile of brass in a 3' circle about 6' away and about 1' in front of us. We used a frame saver too. Once major worked, we beefed up the spring weights to 12-19. I racked the slide without a recoil spring a few hundred times w some mobil 1 and he did the same. Then we added the heavier recoil spring, gun fired WWB without a problem. It just needed some oomph to cycle the tight gun. After 1000 rds the gun was much easier to manually cycle. Put the factory springs back in and it works great now. Toss the recoil master too. If your mags aren't tuned, you could run into a lot of feeding issues.

[E Mont]

E Mont is your SM factory box stock or was it Dawson tuned? I shot a SM with both my 90gr 130 PF loads and WWB that was factory box stock w my mags and I couldn't believe how tight the frame to slide fit was. Both loads were giving us feeding and ejecting issues. Worse with my loads.

We borrowed a mag of major PF ammo and it cycled the whole mag perfectly and left a nice pile of brass in a 3' circle about 6' away and about 1' in front of us. We used a frame saver too. Once major worked, we beefed up the spring weights to 12-19. I racked the slide without a recoil spring a few hundred times w some mobil 1 and he did the same. Then we added the heavier recoil spring, gun fired WWB without a problem. It just needed some oomph to cycle the tight gun. After 1000 rds the gun was much easier to manually cycle. Put the factory springs back in and it works great now. Toss the recoil master too. If your mags aren't tuned, you could run into a lot of feeding issues.

Well ... right now all I can say is 'I think it was DP-tuned gun', but I won't commit to that until I ask. I am quite sure they said DP was somewhat behind schedule on delivering her gun ... but it is possible she just acquired a SM through DP. And I would not describe her gun as 'tight' in the sense that Springfield made their 'FBI' 1911. I was helping do some dealer shows when that model first appeared and it was so tight no one jacked the slide open on their first or even second try. It was locked-up like a bank vault.

But that is not to suggest this SM is 'loose' by any means. To me that seems to be one of the finest, most difficult parts of pistolsmithing - to build a 1911 so the slide opens and closes w/o any hitches or lurches but yet locks up even and rock solid. This SM slide glides almost as if it was a straight blow-back design, i.e. as easily as my just-acquired TruBor that has +/- 10,000 rds. thru it. (And I have fiddled my way thru polishing and beveling and running springs so light they just can't always strip a round from the mag.) Understanding I am a rank amateur - my first comment when I briefly got to handle the piece was 'did someone already cut the recoil spring?'

So - to clean/oil, get tape on the scope mount (great tip BTW), assemble some mouse-fart loads, and grabbing an assortment of recoil springs seems to be in order. My guess? - a heavier spring for WWB ammo, or lower pf reloads ... but i dunno. We will report back when we hear from DP and get some test rounds thru it, k? And again I thank you all for your advice and experience. So many things you may take for granted are entirely new to some of us.

And all of this reminds me - I still need to get over to the smithing section of this forum some night for some help finishing a Kart install to a 6" Fusion. I don't hear too much about them (Fusion) but their fit and finish ranks them far ahead of my first, worst experience of putting a STI slide/frame together. But 'tis 3 AM now and all I can say is ...

Buy buy.

[RocketCity1911]

E Mont,

Have you tried removing the extractor and cleaning it along with the tunnel it lives in? Also, with the slide off the frame, check if the extractor holds an empty case (not too tight, not to loose).

I had some stovepipes this past weekend (like every couple shots). Removed the extractor and found it was loaded with crud. After clean up and reassembly, ran a mag through with no problems. After 5000+ rounds, it was past time.

Hope this helps;)

[Doug S]

John,

send me your next match date in Jan and if I am off that weekend, I will bring my DP SM over for Lori to try. Mine has the enhancement package and runs great on both major and minor PF loads. When I had DP do my gun, I asked for it to be setup to run both loads without a spring change. It has an STI recoil master. I will also bring both major and Minor loads.

Doug

Just looked at our schedule and I think your next match is the 8th and ours is the 9th. I am off that weekend, so I will come over to your match and maybe we can figure out the problem.

Doug

Edited December 24, 2010 by Doug S

[Hannu]

9mm mags are very often the reason for ejection failures. Does failures to eject appear when mag is full, almost empty or randomly ?

Other 2 very common things are ejector itself and extractor. Does your ejector have pin that locks it in ? If not, install it first.

Extractor should have .02" max travel, no more. For example, if you have 9mm Aftec and 9mm breech face = fail.

One big thing is pistol timing. I would assume it is ok from DP but it is easy to check too.

In 9mm brass is very important. Use only brass shot in that gun. For example, Glock brass will often cause problems and there is no way you could resize G brass to work in 9mm Opengun.

I only put slide glide to upper and lower lugs, oil all other places. I do not like to use slide glide in slide rails, if your gun has tight frame/slide fit it is not gonna do any good there.

[sgtis108]

I bought one a while back and had stove pipes. I had to tune the ejector to throw the brass out flat. That worked with good brass but not with range brass.

I put a QinnII mount on, dropped in an aftec and a 7 pound spring and have not had another issue. It will run any ammo now.

It may be my favorite open gun.

[Doug S]

In 9mm brass is very important. Use only brass shot in that gun. For example, Glock brass will often cause problems and there is no way you could resize G brass to work in 9mm Opengun.

I have to disagree with this. I shoot once fired nickel cases that all went through Glocks. This was all picked up from an indoor LE range and our duty guns at that time were all G 17's. Standard brass cases may not work but nickel ones seem to do just fine.

Doug

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shot used range brass all year long in my Open 9mm pistol. I did not have one ammo related problem all year. I did have a C-More mount come lose but learned to fix that The brass was used in all types of pistols when I got it. The brass got really worked after the 4th open reload so it was actually shot 5 times I use a standard Dillon resizing die. Thanks, Eric

[sgtis108]

My issue with brass was that the range brass didn't eject as consistently as once fired same head stamped brass. Consistently meaning following the same trajectory out of the ejection port.

90* mount made that a moot point. I'll use just about any brass now.

[E Mont]

John,

send me your next match date in Jan and if I am off that weekend, I will bring my DP SM over for Lori to try. Mine has the enhancement package and runs great on both major and minor PF loads. When I had DP do my gun, I asked for it to be setup to run both loads without a spring change. It has an STI recoil master. I will also bring both major and Minor loads.

Doug

Just looked at our schedule and I think your next match is the 8th and ours is the 9th. I am off that weekend, so I will come over to your match and maybe we can figure out the problem.

Doug

That'd be very interesting Doug! Thanks! It is always much easier to have the voice of experience show up. And I haven't been in touch to find out if there has been any change, but there will be more time at this match to diagnose. And thanks to everyone for the advice on the cause(s). It is plain to see it really can be caused by a variety of things.

BTW - my calendar is always showing 3rd Sat. for match day (with Dec. being the exception because of Christmas). I need to check that further.

(and sorry for the delay - me thinks me should switch to an Apple)

~ john

[Hannu]

Hello: I shot used range brass all year long in my Open 9mm pistol. I did not have one ammo related problem all year. I did have a C-More mount come lose but learned to fix that The brass was used in all types of pistols when I got it. The brass got really worked after the 4th open reload so it was actually shot 5 times I use a standard Dillon resizing die. Thanks, Eric

If you only load your brass 5 times, you probably have pretty loose chamber and expanded brass will work usually. I prefer 10+ reloads, recent training brass has been loaded 17 times. Also when you have tighter chamber, reloading becomes 16x easier