Should I Buy?

[LexTalionis]

Can you help me decide if this is a good choice? I've never shot a CZ before, but I've been reading a lot about them and believe a Shadow may be the gun for me. However, a GM I know is selling his production rig. It's an SP01 tactical that he's tricked out. The trigger is truly sweet. In SA mode the pull is 2lbs and the reset is ridiculously small. So tell me if this is a good deal.

CZ tactical in excellent condition (about 2k rounds)

7 mags

Bladetech holster

4 mag pouches

Aluminum thin grips (very sexy)

Light IDPA grips

All of the above for $1k. If I were to buy a new custom shadow, I'd be out almost $1300 with shipping and ffl. Mags and holster stuff figure another $250ish. So is it worth saving $550 to get a used Tactical? What are the cons? I really like the way it feels and can tell outright that I'd be able to shoot it better than my XD9 4". Your thoughts?

[The_Vigilante]

Sounds like a great deal to me-I own 3 CZ's myself. I would shoot the pistol before I bought it if possible. Will the owner let you have it checked by a gunsmith?

[DWFAN]

Sounds a little high to me.. How used is all of it? Here are my thoughts/opinions, others may vary.

Stock Tactical is 660, Stock Shadow 880. Good Used tactical ~$500-550 or so. I dont think there is $500 worth of used gear there.

Search the classifieds for past sales. This one looks to have sold for $1100, on a CUSTOM Shadow, all mags and holster. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112284&view=findpost&p=1276221&hl=shadow&fromsearch=1

There are others out there with mags and extras that look to have went for ~1000. Hang out, watch the ads, once you get 50posts, post a WTB ad. Dont settle, or you'll be selling next year for a Shadow.

Good luck.

Edited November 5, 2010 by DWFAN

[CocoBolo]

I paid $850 for a Custom Shadow, 5 mags, and a bladetech holster. Make and offer and don't run.

[ck1]

Not a bad deal by any means, but here's the thing: the mags and holsters will run you around 250-300+, just get over that... the real sticky thing will be once you get to check out a non-decocker model, and/or a legal-W/O-FPB Shadow you will be kicking yourself that you didn't pony-up the extra couple hundred bucks or held out for an honest-to-goodness Shadow.

JMHO, but I've got my Sp-01 as close to a Shadow as possible and not being able to use it in sanctioned matches with the FPB removed is already breaking my heart and having me thinking up ways to come up with the cash for a Shadow and make my current gun a fun SAO.

Just my 0.02.

[LexTalionis]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll wait for a good deal to come up and not settle.

Just a quick question, how different is a tuned Tactical trigger from a shadow custom? I wasn't aware that the difference was so big as some of you have stated. The guy selling the gun is a gunsmith, so it's definitely been worked on. Like I said, the trigger was really sweet. Are there any other noticeable differences between the two? Thanks.

[ck1]

Just a quick question, how different is a tuned Tactical trigger from a shadow custom? I wasn't aware that the difference was so big as some of you have stated.

The biggest difference is the reset, without a FPB (like in a Shadow) it's half as long as you could ever get it with a FPB in there. The pull is ever so slightly better weight/quality-wise as no FPB means 2 less springs in the way of breaking the sear but IMO that's not really that big of a deal, but that said, if you shoot a Shadow or an SP-01 with it's FPB removed you will not want to go back as the reset is just awesome, short and crisp like a nice 1911 but with a bit more "snap" that leans more towards what you get with Glocks (which is a very good thing).

Also, the decocker guns just have more going on clockwork-wise and if you're seriously after the best trigger you can get you'll want to stick to the traditional CZ DA/SA with a thumb safety (preferably without the FPB).

If you're going to stick to local matches only and aren't going to get too competitive just removing the FPB from a standard SP-01 is a cheaper route but it'll be illegal in any kind of "official" or sanctioned match, since the Shadow is born without it from the start it's legal and GTG.

[spanky]

I wouldnt advise using an illegal gun even at local matches?

[ck1]

I wouldnt advise using an illegal gun even at local matches?

I'm not saying "ignore the rules and screw everybody, just go ahead and cheat", I just mean if that's all you've got and you're a casual shooter out shooting for fun, if you're up front about it most guys in the local clubs (mine at least) could really care-less... I would of-course let it be known that you're aware of what you're shooting and let it be known, as undoubtedly there will be some range/game-nazi's or guys who might not be able to get over it.

You bring up a good issue though, it sucks to find out in hindsight that you'd be better off with a different model gun based on the rule books after the fact, as there are probably more than a few guys who find out later that their new $600 gun needs to get traded or sold off at a loss to pick up the $800 gun do to what really amounts to semantics... I know in my case I picked up

my SP-01 on impulse as i found a good deal on a used one and just figured for sure that removing the FPB would be ljust fine and legal in both idpa and IPSC since Shadows and 85C's are made without them and work the same, only to find out later that I was mistaken and now need to spend a few extra hundred bucks just to get what amounts to the same exact gun function-wise and safety-wise that I already own but with a different name to be legal. The rules concerning these particular guns is pretty subjective in this case IMO, but it is what it is... I'd just throw the FPB back in if anyone had a problem with me using it without making a fuss.

Reminds me, while on the subject, anyone know if CZ will

just sell a Shadow slide? Would be nice to not have to get a whole other gun if I didn't have to...

Edited November 6, 2010 by ck1

[LexTalionis]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. The reset on this gun was incredibly short and crisp, so I'm wondering if the fpb was removed. If that's the case, I definitely don't want it then.

I'll keep hunting, thanks!

[Z-man]

Angus was selling just Shadow slides on CZ custom.

[ck1]

Angus was selling just Shadow slides on CZ custom.

Think it's just whole top-ends for $475, if I can get just a slide I'd do it, but if a whole top-end is my only option I'd rather just make my current gun into a sick SAO and pick up a Shadow sometime in the future when I come across a good deal. $475 for less than a 1/4" less reset travel is pretty steep, or, to put it another way, $475 for my pistol to feel and work exactly the same as it does already but be considered legal is pretty steep.

What's kind of funny is I'm more of an IDPA guy and I kind of screwed myself as I did some research but apparently just not enough, I found articles saying that since the older "custom shop" sp-01's were offered without FPB's, removing them was allowed as long as the gun made weight for SSP, then other info saying how it was easier to get an SP-01 to make weight than a Shadow... Well, seems that changed and HQ then said it was only ok if the custom shop removed the FPB and then that changed again once a proper Shadow started being made and I figured that out too late.

I can see how an SP-01 in IPSC Production with it's FPB removed is not considered legal as it is called "Production" after all and that's the whole idea, what's got me, is that in IDPA the whole reason an SP-01 or a Shadow have to make weight for SSP is that for some reason IDPA considers there rails a "factory modification" to a CZ-75 (which it isn't), and beyond that, different hammers and triggers like the comp hammer and 85C triggers are allowed as they're offered on other related models, so in-turn since related models are offered without FPB's it'd make more sense under their own logic that removing FPB's from the others would be ok rather than not ok.

Rules are rules though so it either goes back in or I pony up the loot for a Shadow or an 85C. What sucks is now that I know what it's like with out the FPB, a few hundred bucks seems more reasonable than just reinstalling it and shooting with the longer reset. Epic fail.

Edited November 7, 2010 by ck1