IDPA SSR; Was this the right Revo?

[SPDGG]

Hello,

I am in the process of a local trade for a Like New S&W 67-5 .38Spl +P. I would like to use this for IDPA SSR, but have some questions/concerns regarding using a K Frame with a steady diet of 125 PF + loads. I have searched and read up on what others are using in regard to W231/HP-38 powder charge, but want to make sure the pressures will be okay with this revolver, S&W 67-5, for the long haul.

I have always liked K-Framed S&W, but dont mind larger L/N framed Revo(s) as well. I searched & read up on this/that suggestions on SSR platforms, and many suggested a K Frame S&W Revo. The current Heavy Barrel S&W Model 67 came up several times, but I didnt research the PF load data enough before hand.

Would a S&W 686 L Frame be a better choice? . . . . or do I just need to stop being & go shot the crap out of it !

Specs on the S&W 67-5:

- .38 Spl +P

- 6 Shot

- 36oz

- 4" HEAVY Barrel [67-5 has a 1pc barrel][No taper on 67-4,-5,-6]

- Adjustable Rear

- Pinned Front Sight.

I will only be loading:

- 158grn. Plated Round Nose Bullets

- W231 [Enough to get the 158grn @ Ave. 815fps]

- Federal Primers

- .38 Spl brass

* Appreciate any feedback/suggestions, Thank you.

Edited October 29, 2010 by SPDGG

[MrBorland]

or do I just need to stop being & go shot the crap out of it !

This.

As far as ability to stand up to a "steady diet" of +P, I wouldn't sweat it too much*. Competition is hard on revolvers anyway. More so, the practice. One could argue that regular (i.e. daily) dry fire practice will add as much (or more) wear and tear to a 686 (it did mine) or a 67 than live fire. Practicing speedloader reloads seems particularly tough on SSR guns, as the "push" needed to release the rounds puts strain on the crane and the crane screw/plunger assembly, in particular, which can (and will?) eventually bend and push the cylinder forward. If it bends enough, the cylinder won't close, or will even fall out of the gun!

I've been shooting a 686 in SSR, but recently picked up a k-frame 66. Both are fine SSR guns, and, IMHO, largely comes down to which one prefers and shoots better. Keep it reasonably clean, inspect it regularly, but pack some essentials in your range bag anyway. Some of mine include a screwdriver (with hollow ground bits), extra fiber optic, blue LokTite, cleaning stuff, and an extra crane screw/plunger. Oh...and a backup gun.

*if you're shooting outdoors, you might consider lead, rather than plated bullets, as they take less powder to get down the barrel. To me they feel softer, and logic tells me they'd be easier on the gun. Cheaper, too.

[John Z Sr]

Backup gun always a good idea, you never know and what better way to get a new observer into a shooter "hey why not try to shoot the match, I have an extra gun in the truck you can borrow"

[MrBorland]

Good point, John - now that I have 2 complete SSR rigs, I'm going to bring both to matches with an open invite.

One other point about "durability": Other should chime in, but normal wear and tear involves bending of the crane, ejector rod, crane plunger screw, and end shake, which is all fixable, and doesn't mean the gun is toast.

Tom

[Jim Watson]

Agree on the bullets. It is hard to get a jacketed or plated bullet up to speed at .38 Special pressures inherited from the black powder era.

I use moly coated lead, it gets down the barrel easier than copper and smokes less than wax lubed cast.

My W231 load is at the top of standard pressure or just into +P depending on which book you go by.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Jim Watson

[Brewski]

Good point, John - now that I have 2 complete SSR rigs, I'm going to bring both to matches with an open invite.

One other point about "durability": Other should chime in, but normal wear and tear involves bending of the crane, ejector rod, crane plunger screw, and end shake, which is all fixable, and doesn't mean the gun is toast.

Tom

Tom's point here is critical to the K vs L frame decision for an SSR shooter; the elements on both guns that are prone to wear and eventual failure are essentially (or exactly) the same dimensions and metallurgical composition. These are failures of design rather than size or metallurgy. The major differences between the guns – the size and mass of the frame, barrel and cylinder are components that don’t wear out or fail (excluding manufacturing defects) even after 10s of thousands of 125PF loads. As for full power magnum loads, the mass of the L frame may be an advantage in longevity – it certainly is for handling the recoil of full power loads. But for SSR, the real difference in the guns is in the handling characteristics. The K is a faster gun in transition – is center of mass is further back in your hand and the gun is lighter than the L. The L tends to stay put and takes more effort to stop and start during transition. Is one better than the other? Depends on the course of fire and your own “shooting state of being”. Both are excellent IDPA guns and I will envy you if you can shoot enough to really wear one out using it as a game gun.

Agree on the bullets. It is hard to get a jacketed or plated bullet up to speed at .38 Special pressures inherited from the black powder era.

I use moly coated lead, it gets down the barrel easier than copper and smokes less than wax lubed cast.

My W231 load is at the top of standard pressure or just into +P depending on which book you go by.

I totally agree with Tom and Jim. Moly or plain lead are the way to go for both performance and cost. However, like a lot of old timers Jim is still using 231. I'd recommend a cleaner burning powder such as Clays or Solo 1000.

I've been shooting SSR exclusively for the last 3 years - mostly with a 66-3. This summer after the Carolina Cup I switched to a 686-5 just for fun to see how running an L frame felt. I like it, but I still prefer the K. Get that 67 and shoot the crap out of it.

Will

[Toolguy]

The main issue with a K frame that gets shot a lot is the barrel splitting at the bottom of the forcing cone where there's a flat to allow clearance for the crane to close. I've seen a lot of 38s with only powder puff wadcutter loads split after many thousands of rounds. I've seen other ones that have worn out the rifling (usually over 100,000 rounds)and never did split. Way back when, before there were L frames, I had a M19 that I shot for everything. PPC with .38s, Metallic Silhouette with 180 gr. .357 and everything in between. It was my only match gun for 3 years. I probably had over 150,000 rounds through it. It never split and was accurate till I sold it to buy a new M66, one of the first stainless guns from S&W. From what I've seen over the years, I would say just go shoot it. If it's going to split, it will. There's a good chance it may not. If it does, it's a simple matter to screw a new barrel on and start over.

[DougCarden]

Instead of W231, might I suggest some Nitro 100 with the 158s....start at 3.4gr with your OAL and chrono up to what you need. It is accurate, and you might like the recoil signature more than the W231 for the game you are playing....

DougC

[DWFAN]

Instead of W231, might I suggest some Nitro 100 with the 158s....start at 3.4gr with your OAL and chrono up to what you need. It is accurate, and you might like the recoil signature more than the W231 for the game you are playing....

DougC

Interesting.. never seen that suggested. Im happy with my clays load now, but when it and the Solo1K are gone.. Might have to try it. Is it good with lead/moly ?

I really like my 686ssr for IDPA, but a K frame would probably be just as good.

[lugnut]

I'm not an old timer and I use 231 with my 38 loads. 158gr Berrys too. Lately I've been using N320 as well. With 231 I need about 5.1grs to make PF comfortably, N320 about 4.9gr. In my experience an L frame is not that limiting. People say it's heavier and transitions slower... You ever shoot an open gun? Some of those guns are heavy and the top dogs have NO issues transitioning them.

To me reliability is paramount. The rounds need to go off and the gun needs to work. If that is the case- the shooter can go quite a ways before the equipment slows you down.