RCBS Progressive

[noylj]

I am a big advocate of the Hornady L-N-L. If I had the money to waste, I would buy a Lee Progressive with the case and bullet feeds just for the challenge. I have looked at the Dillons and found that only the 1050 was for me. The others, IMNSHO, just aren't as "nice," for me, as the Hornady.

However, I have not read one single opinion on the RCBS progressive. Has any one ever used one? Just curious.

[jmorris]

I used one once. My idea is that it exists for the same reason Saab cars exist. Some just want to be different despite better choices in quality , value and/or price.

If you enjoy tinkering the Lee can be made to work, you will have the most fun (just not much luck) with the bullet feeder. The LNL I had would have been a decent machine for pistol reloading.

Edited October 16, 2010 by jmorris

[Mattog22]

I used one once. My idea is that it exists for the same reason Saab cars exist. Some just want to be different despite better choices in quality , value and/or price.

If you enjoy tinkering the Lee can be made to work, you will have the most fun (just not much luck) with the bullet feeder. The LNL I had would have been a decent machine for pistol reloading.

Just curious, why just pistol? I load my .223 and .308 for 3-Gun on mine

[Adam B]

I had one as well as the hornady, didnt care for either, got a Dillon 550 and never looked back

[redwoods]

I think forum member SA Friday has an RCBS progressive for his handgun rounds.

[jmorris]

Just curious, why just pistol? I load my .223 and .308 for 3-Gun on mine

With the rifle rounds I was trying to load the ½ index on the down stroke and ½ index on the up stroke made me insert the bullet up into the seating die first then the case finished indexing around and drop the bullet into position. If you placed the bullet on top of the case on the down stroke the tip would hit the seating die on the, half index, way up. On a press, like the Dillon(’s), it fully indexes on the down stroke, place a bullet on top and straight up it goes.

The ½ index might be nice if you were spilling powder but it was a total PITA for loading the rounds I purchased it for.

[sonicslam]

I am a big advocate of the Hornady L-N-L. If I had the money to waste, I would buy a Lee Progressive with the case and bullet feeds just for the challenge. I have looked at the Dillons and found that only the 1050 was for me. The others, IMNSHO, just aren't as "nice," for me, as the Hornady.

However, I have not read one single opinion on the RCBS progressive. Has any one ever used one? Just curious.

If you are going to buy a Lee progressive (assuming you are talking about the Load Master)the reality is that most of what people bitch about is NOT the issue. It's not about the primer feeder using plastic parts. It is not the fact that the shellplate/carriage rotate by a rod that uses the frame for positioning. It is the simple fact that Lee cuts corners it need not. For no reason. They use a crap piece of tubing for a ram. They have an issue with controlling clearances. My Load Master had enough slop in it that there was no way on earth it would be able to feed a primer and insert it on a consistant basis. The slop, wobble/axis rotation issues due only to poor machining allow the timing to get off, and flipped, smashed, dented and missing primers are the sure result.

Can these issues be addressed? Yes. But why bother? By the time you machine a bushing, fit it to the ram, remachine the handle/pin at the bottom of the ram and tighten up all the issues down there, you have wasted productive time you could be reloading with something else, or, better yet, shooting etc.

I personally told John Lee he could dominate the progressive reloading market if he would just address a few simple issues. Most of which would REDUCE the cost of the press! He could cost the unit the same and increase profit!! He feels like his market share is enough for him. So, he continues to needlessly cut corners and produce an inferior product just to say that he can do it. And sites like loadmastervideo.com don't help. He has an unpaid militia to work out kinks, rewrite the instructions and come up with all kinds of answers for issues he would deny even exist!!! (as do most who participate in that particular forum).

Just my .02. I didn't spend a nickle on my LM. It sits as a monumental reminder that just becasue you can, doesn't mean you should.

[Scar270]

Sorry I'm a bit late, but I do have an RCBS Pro 2000, and just recently updated to the auto index kit.

I think it has it's place, and I to some extent wish I had went Dillon, for where I was at the time, it was the right choice, and still works well now.

The powder measure works great, never had any issues with it, however it is not a powder through expander, so you need to have a separate expander die, or use a Dillon measure.

The auto index works fine, and the priming system works fairly well. Occasionally I do get an upside down primer, something that still baffles me how that happens, as I can't for the life of me see how they get flipped over, yet they do. As I say that it is a very rare incident. The APS priming strips work well, and the primer strip filler works well, I do prefer it over primer pick up tubes, however if I had one of the dillon primer tube fillers I may feel differently.

The biggest downside is no case feeder available, or likely to become available. If it had a case feeder, I'd be extremely happy with it.

Caliber conversions are really easy, and that is the real plus side of it, and why I purchased it. Changing primer sizes is one bolt out, and a different one back in essentially. The toolheads don't include the powder measure, so you have to reset the powder measure, but you also don't need a bunch of powder measures, so it's cheaper. Shell plates are one bolt to change, toolheads are two pins. If I have toolheads set up, changing primer sizes, shell plates, primer plates, and resetting the powder measure would be a 5 minute job.

I load a large number of different calibers, which is why I chose the RCBS. Many of those calibers have brass worth enough I can't justify keeping 1000's of each brass on hand, so I do have to set up for each caliber at least once a year, some many times.

Production rate is easily 300 an hour for rifle, and 400 for pistol (this was before the auto index, I have not used it enough since I got it to get a real feel for speed with the auto index yet, but it should go up). I was using the RCBS lube dies, they are a good concept, but don't work well for that long, and cause more trouble then they are worth, I went to using spray lube before I start, and now I make out much better. In fact my rifle production is probably catching up to my pistol production rates now.

I know have a Dillon 1050 set up with conversions for 9mm, 38/357 and 45 acp, and would like to get a few more for it, as there is certainly hands down no comparison, but I can't justify the costs of conversions for most of my calibers, or the cost of enough brass to warrant converting it.

For my multitude of rifle calibers that I load, the RCBS works quite well, I am considering a bullet feeder of some make, since the case feeder isn't an option, as that would speed things up greatly if I only had to handle the brass.

In short, for lots of caliber changes and production runs of 200-500 rounds before conversion, the RCBS is fantastic, if doing larger runs then that, find something with a case feeder for the speed increase.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Scar270

[goat68]

I have an RCBS ammomaster that is a glorified piggy back. It is a progressive 5 station loader that has seen better days. I got it about 15 years ago and it served me well till I took a shooting break that lasted 10 years. Now the loader has a broken priming system and no mention of the ammomaster existence on the RCBS website means I will baby it along and hand prime everything till it finally dies. Then I can get a Dillion.

[shooterready]

Just like Scar I've been loading on a RCBS Pro2000 for about 10 years. However, I've recently added a 650 with case feeder.

Scar's comments are spot on. I do not have the auto index feature and do not plan on adding it as I now load my 9 and 40 on the 650. Everything else goes through the 2000. I'm tooled up for just about every pistol caliber and several rifle. Change over is the biggest plus in my opinion. I only need one powder drop to load every caliber. Tooling up for another caliber is much cheaper a well.

Loading rate as he stated has been my experience as well.

[shooterready]

Scar, welcome to the forum. Nice first post!

[Scar270]

Scar, welcome to the forum. Nice first post!

Thanks, lots of interesting things on this forum.

goat68, call RCBS and tell them what you have, if they have parts they will probably help you out. I've contacted them before about obsolete presses, and they didn't want to sell me parts, but they would take it in and fix it for me still. So give them a call and see what they say, I find they have excellent customer service.

[noylj]

I know the blue Kool-Aid rung thick here, but anyone interested in a progressive press should look at the Hornady and the Dillon (I would include the RCBS, but I don't know that machine). There are several aspects to the 550 and 650 that keep me from liking them and I know the Hornady is a better machine for me. You should download and read the owner's manual for any presses you are interested in and watch the company's videos and YouTube. Be sure, when you are spending so much money, that you are really getting the best press for you.

[Scar270]

noylj, what particular aspects concern you about the 550 and 650? I have never had an opportunity to run either, only the 1050 and I love it.

[noylj]

With the Hornady, you handle the empty case and bullet with your left hand.

On the 550B and 650, the empty cases enter the shellplate on the right. This is very awkward.

So, most people use the case tube and fill it up, load twenty rounds, fill up the tube, etc.

I never liked standing and sitting and got tired real fast. Disliked those two machines.

I find that I want to get in a rhythm and I can't on those machines until a case feeder in installed.

I never needed a case feeder on the Hornady since it took no more real time to feed an empty case and place the bullet on the charged case than it does to place a bullet on the charged case (the difference just wouldn't justify the price of a case feeder).

Dillon designed their presses so you "need" a case feeder. Hornady designed theirs to be ergonomic without a case feeder.

With either Dillon, I would have to have a case feeder.

Next, a caliber change on the Hornady only involves removing the shellplate and putting on the new shellplate. All the dies are on bushings so you can swap them in and out very quickly.

The Dillons I loaded on had slop between the toolhead and the press. I don't think it affected anything, but it was annoying. You also will very quickly want to buy a tool head for each caliber as you will get tired of making die adjustments. A toolhead, powder measure, and a caliber conversion kit is a LOT of money. On the Hornady, it was about $25 for a shellplate and $3 for a bushing (cheaper when you bought a 10 pack).

Finally, I never wanted a 4-station AP, which is why I got the Hornady when they first came out (late '70s?). Think Dillon was on the 400 or 450 at the time? Finally, for the way I reload, I need auto-indexing. Some want that control, but I want to press to index on its own.

Thus, for the 550 and 650, you have a more expensive press that requires more expensive caliber conversion units and a case feeder before they become acceptable to me.

That is me, though. I just don't think any one should buy a Dillon or any other major purchase 'cause their friend or someone famous uses it. As with music, the worst audio systems I have heard were the ones that musicians own. Like auto mechanics and their own cars. Those famous people are cranking them out as fast as possible and some hire people to operate 'cause they need to be shooting.

Right not, I have three 1050s and my son has my Hornady. Since the 1050 comes with a case feeder, it is nigh-on perfect as shipped and makes every press I have used feel terrible in comparison. However, it would be about the worst press for a beginner and it is a major headache to remove the shellplate if you spill any powder.

PS: I had better success with the priming system on my L-N-L then on any one of my 1050s. Just last night I had to pull apart the priming system because a primer got cocked in the slider. This also led to powder spilling on and under the shellplate, so I had to basically strip the whole thing down, give a thorough cleaning, and fiddle with the priming system to get it working again.

[Scar270]

Thanks very much, that's very helpful. I hadn't thought about or realized that you load brass and bullets from opposite sides. The RCBS is like the Hornady, and the left hand loads both. I have a Ponsness Warren shotshell press, and have found the same thing you are talking about, and am looking at adding a hull feeder very quickly for that same reason.

For me the 650 is the only other Dillon I would look at, and I wouldn't consider it without a brass feeder anyway.

As for caliber conversions, the RCBS is also cheaper, with maybe a $30 die plate, instead of 2-3 $3 bushings, and then a shellplate for about $30. However I load enough different calibers, I don't buy die plates for them all, and doubt I would even buy Hornady bushings for them all. I instead invest my money in brass, so I only have to most of my calibers once a year or so, some even less often then that.

Thanks again for explaining your concerns, while I don't think they would change my decision on a 650, with where I am in my reloading, however I can certainly see your concerns, and will make sure to remember the case feeding when talking with others considering a 650 or 550.

It's nice to chat with people who have operated a few different presses, which is difficult to do, as at the price of progressive presses, most stick with the one they buy to start with.

[59Bassman]

What noylj mentioned is one of the primary reasons I bought my Hornady LNL. I've spent too many years feeding a MEC loader from the left hand side to switch now. When I watched the videos and saw the Dillon loaded empty shells from the right, I knew I couldn't get accustomed to that. Yes, I know MEC progressives load wads on the right, and I know that the Hornady indexes in the opposite direction from the MEC. Even with all that, the Hornady felt and looked more familiar to me than the Dillons.

[General Tso]

I recently purchased an RCBS Pro2000. I really like it. It is cast iron, not aluminum. I purchased it due to RCBS's good name. I do not have the auto index feature as I'm new to progressives and I wanted the least complicated setup a first. They also have a bullet feeder available. Funny thing is, I can't stop using my Lee Pro Auto-Disc powder dispenser. It is just so easy to use!

[NMinzghor]

I had a rockchucker originally and then put the Piggyback III on it and use it as a manually indexing progressive. I have been using it for almost 10 years with minimal issues for pistol up to .223. It tends to throw spent primers all over the place, the priming system works well but is a bit tedious. I run about 400 per hour with it.