Havin a Heckuva time with 45ACP crimp

[Spades]

Hi all,

Got some questions answered in a different thread pertaining to this. But, I'm still having a problem achieving what I believe is a acceptable crimp.

I have a Lee Pro 1000 Progressive press w/45ACP die set

I believe I finally have a decent crimp where the die doesn't seem to be touching the bullet. I actually had a situation where the die was putting a dent in the bullet. Now that I think I've gotten it set correctly, I looked at it under a scope, and the small crimp area at the end of the case looks really rough. It sure doesn't look like the nice crimp I get on my 45Colt rounds. The roughness makes me wonder if it is going to affect case life.

The crimp die on this Lee Pro 1000 does two things; sets bullet depth and then crimps. With a brand new die I would expect a smooth crimp on the top of the case. Any suggestions on what's going on? I am in contact with the Lee factory and requesting a replacement combination die. No answer back yet. I've included a picture of the dent the die was putting in the bullet. I understand it could just be me! Any help appreciated.

I have found a load I like, but without the crimp being correct I don't have much luck having them cycle through my Springfield XD. Some just won't enter the chamber.

[G-ManBart]

One of the reasons I think seating and crimping should be done with different dies.

So even though they measure what you want them to at the case mouth, they still won't enter the chamber? What do you have the crimp set at now?

[Spades]

Here's a pic of the latest. Plus, out of 10 reloads it is putting this little dent at the end of 2 of them. Is that just garbage in the die?

Where the bullet is seated into the brass it measures .472. As close as I can measure to the end with my Mic., it is .471. These latest 10 that I have done, I have not tried to shoot yet. Under a scope it looks like the crimp is scaping the crimp on vs. just bending the lip over.

I have probably only reloaded 50 or less rounds on these new dies.

One of the reasons I think seating and crimping should be done with different dies.

So even though they measure what you want them to at the case mouth, they still won't enter the chamber? What do you have the crimp set at now?

[MARKAVELI]

Are you using Lee dies and can you use other dies on the on your press?

[Phil G]

I agree with G-ManBart. I suggest that you use a bullet seating die (with no crimp) and then use a taper crimp die in a separate operation. It is important to use a taper crimp die as opposed to a roll crimp die on a 45ACP. Lee as well as many other manufacturers makes a taper crimp die. The 45ACP headspaces off of the case mouth and a roll crimp can create a problem because the roll crimp forms a slight radius at the case mouth by pressing it inward against the bullet. Because the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, a slight ledge must be left on the case mouth to provide proper positioning of a chambered round. Properly adjusted, the taper crimp die leaves the small ledge.

Phil G

[salilus]

The lee pro1000 only has three holes so you have to use a seat\crimp die in the last station.

[noylj]

Take the seating die apart and see if there is any debris inside (you did spray a cleaner/degreaser through them before you used them?).

Two, you are NOT trying to crimp. You are trying to iron out the case bell you made at the powder-through expander die. Are you over belling? With a jacketed bullet, about all you need is an inside chamfered case and expand/bell the case just enough so the bullet will sit on the case mouth. Belling will make the bullet seating easier but it is not the absolute necessity it is for lead bullets.

Just to review, chamfer all your brass inside and out the first time you reload it. Next, run an empty case through resizing die (do not prime the case, you are making an inert dummy round for function testing), run it through the powder-through expander die (remove the powder measure and screw the "powder funnel" back on the die (or use an empty powder measure). Adjust the powder-through expander so you get just a "hint" of case belling. You should be able to put the jacketed bullet on the case and have it just sit there.

Setting up for simultaneous seating and crimping (not ideal, but what are you going to do?)

Now, take the seating/crimp die and unscrew it about four turns up and run the seater stem all the up the die.

Place your dummy round at the seating station (only three stations? Perfect for bottleneck, not so perfect for straight-wall cases) with the bullet nestled on the case mouth. Run the dummy round into the die. While the ram is full up, screw the die down until you feel the "crimp" section contact the case (you know because it takes more force to screw the die in). Unscrew the die up about 1/2 turn.

Now, you are going to seat the bullet. The nice thing with Lee dies is where ever you set the lock ring, it will stay there. With the ram full up with the dummy still in the die, screw the seater stem down (hold the die body so it doesn't screw in any) until you contact the bullet.

Lower the ram a little and turn the seater stem down about 1/2 to 1 full turn. Raise the ram and seat the bullet.

Remove the dummy and check you COL (OAL). I usually start with a target COL of 1.260". Keep adjusting the seater stem (not the die body) down until you achieve your target COL. I would recommend starting with 1.260" and run a function test to see if you need a shorter COL.

Run the seater stem back up about 3-4 full turns so it is out of the way (Complicated when you combine the two operations into just the one). Raise the ram up so the dummy is fully in the die. Now, turn the body of the die down until it touches the crimp area (the spot where you first notice any increase in force to turn the die). Lower the dummy, turn the die about 1/4 turn, run the dummy into the die and lower. Is the belling gone? You are targeting an O.D. at the case mouth of 0.474-0.471", exact target is usually 0.472". When you achieve the desired crimp (usually you just look at the case side against a bright white surface to see if any belling is visible and you run your finger along the bullet to the case mouth to be sure that it feels fairly smooth and doesn't catch like it will when belled.

Now you have the die body set for the desired crimp (remember, all you are really doing is ensuring that the case mouth is not belled), run the dummy back into the die and turn the seater stem down until it contacts the bullet. Now you have your die set for simultaneous seating and crimping. Wasn't that easy.

Load a dummy or two into your magazine. Does it fit in the magazine? If not, you need a shorter COL. Insert magazine in the gun and rack the slide back and let it go. Does the dummy feed and chamber? If so, you good to go. If not, you will need to adjust the COL in small increments until it does feed and chamber.

If during these operations, you feel anything that grabs the case mouth or dings it, there is something wrong with the die. Call Lee and send the die and the dummy to them.

[Spades]

Thanks a lot for that explanation and walkthrough.

Using that information here's what I have -

1 - Sizing the case I end up with .468

2 - After flaring I end up with .471

3 - After bullet seating and crimp I now end up with .469/.4695 and OAL of 1.262.

I think because of my experience with my 45 Colt dies I was expecting to need more of a visible crimp on the end.

Now, I'll just have to see how they cycle through my Springfield XD, probably on Monday.

Oh! And I did take apart the die and clean it. It still seems to be putting a micro small dent in the case end. I've already contacted Lee and they said to send it to them with a dummy round and they will replace it.

thanks for your help!

Take the seating die apart and see if there is any debris inside (you did spray a cleaner/degreaser through them before you used them?).

Two, you are NOT trying to crimp. You are trying to iron out the case bell you made at the powder-through expander die. Are you over belling? With a jacketed bullet, about all you need is an inside chamfered case and expand/bell the case just enough so the bullet will sit on the case mouth. Belling will make the bullet seating easier but it is not the absolute necessity it is for lead bullets.

Just to review, chamfer all your brass inside and out the first time you reload it. Next, run an empty case through resizing die (do not prime the case, you are making an inert dummy round for function testing), run it through the powder-through expander die (remove the powder measure and screw the "powder funnel" back on the die (or use an empty powder measure). Adjust the powder-through expander so you get just a "hint" of case belling. You should be able to put the jacketed bullet on the case and have it just sit there.

Setting up for simultaneous seating and crimping (not ideal, but what are you going to do?)

Now, take the seating/crimp die and unscrew it about four turns up and run the seater stem all the up the die.

Place your dummy round at the seating station (only three stations? Perfect for bottleneck, not so perfect for straight-wall cases) with the bullet nestled on the case mouth. Run the dummy round into the die. While the ram is full up, screw the die down until you feel the "crimp" section contact the case (you know because it takes more force to screw the die in). Unscrew the die up about 1/2 turn.

Now, you are going to seat the bullet. The nice thing with Lee dies is where ever you set the lock ring, it will stay there. With the ram full up with the dummy still in the die, screw the seater stem down (hold the die body so it doesn't screw in any) until you contact the bullet.

Lower the ram a little and turn the seater stem down about 1/2 to 1 full turn. Raise the ram and seat the bullet.

Remove the dummy and check you COL (OAL). I usually start with a target COL of 1.260". Keep adjusting the seater stem (not the die body) down until you achieve your target COL. I would recommend starting with 1.260" and run a function test to see if you need a shorter COL.

Run the seater stem back up about 3-4 full turns so it is out of the way (Complicated when you combine the two operations into just the one). Raise the ram up so the dummy is fully in the die. Now, turn the body of the die down until it touches the crimp area (the spot where you first notice any increase in force to turn the die). Lower the dummy, turn the die about 1/4 turn, run the dummy into the die and lower. Is the belling gone? You are targeting an O.D. at the case mouth of 0.474-0.471", exact target is usually 0.472". When you achieve the desired crimp (usually you just look at the case side against a bright white surface to see if any belling is visible and you run your finger along the bullet to the case mouth to be sure that it feels fairly smooth and doesn't catch like it will when belled.

Now you have the die body set for the desired crimp (remember, all you are really doing is ensuring that the case mouth is not belled), run the dummy back into the die and turn the seater stem down until it contacts the bullet. Now you have your die set for simultaneous seating and crimping. Wasn't that easy.

Load a dummy or two into your magazine. Does it fit in the magazine? If not, you need a shorter COL. Insert magazine in the gun and rack the slide back and let it go. Does the dummy feed and chamber? If so, you good to go. If not, you will need to adjust the COL in small increments until it does feed and chamber.

If during these operations, you feel anything that grabs the case mouth or dings it, there is something wrong with the die. Call Lee and send the die and the dummy to them.

[Rico567]

The Lee seating / crimping die supplied with the .45 ACP die set is a taper crimp die. I suspect that the one supplied with .45 Colt is a roll crimp die. Before I got my Dillon 650, for 20 years I loaded all my pistol ammo (including many thousands of .45 ACP) with two Lee Pro 1000s & Lee dies. Few problems, and Lee was always great in dealing with me. Now that I use a 650, I employ the Lee Factory Crimp Die in the last stage, which eliminates a lot of the complexity in setting up a standard seat/crimp die.

In forty-odd years of dealing not only with Lee, but with several of the manufacturers in the reloading industry (Dillon, RCBS, MEC, Winchester), in my experience elsewhere the people who supply and serve our pastime could serve as exemplars of customer service for ANY industry.

[wide45]

The first picture is overcrimped. Cant tell for sure, but second likely is too.

Back the die out and reset it. Don't keep screwing it down once you have straightened out the bell. More is not better.

The die is designed not to crimp so much that it won't headspace. Trying to get more crimp out of it results in sizing down the case, but no more crimp. This is visible as a step in the brass near the mouth. You can see it in your first picture. The more you screw down the die, the lower this step is seen.