Lots of smoke with clays

[Mattog22]

I'm shooting 4.0 gr of clays under a 230 gr Zero bullet and it seemed like I had a lot of smoke almost like I was shooting lubes lead bullets. Is this a characteristic of clays powder? Is it due to the exposed lead base of the Zero bullets? If not, what else could cause this?

[stinsonbeach]

This is all I know:

I shoot Clay's in my 180gr .40's & 185gr .45's - both JHP Montana Gold.

It keeps it consistent when I change calibers.

No smoke problems & I just make major.

I use to use HS-6 but Clay's is "soft" & consistent.

I love it.

-jb

[Corey]

i too found Clays to be quite smokey. Im shooting 200gr Precision Moly bullets with titegroup now. much less smoke compared to the Clays loads i tested.

[The_Vigilante]

Shooting 3.7g Clay with 230g Precision-haven't noticed much smoke and none of the other shooters have commented.

[Mattog22]

I'm not real sure what I could be doing to cause this. I really didn't notice it shooting but other people watching mentioned something about it. Other than lube from lead bullets I don't know what else will cause smoke.

[Steve J]

I'm shooting 4.0 gr of clays under a 230 gr Zero bullet and it seemed like I had a lot of smoke almost like I was shooting lubes lead bullets. Is this a characteristic of clays powder? Is it due to the exposed lead base of the Zero bullets? If not, what else could cause this?

Same here. I had so much white smoke and mushy recoil impulse with Clays under a 230gr FMJ that I gave the remainder of the can to a friend. I can't stand the stuff. I also switched to Tite-Group and haven't looked back.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Steve J

[TerryO]

I shoot 4.0 grains under a MG 230 gr FMJ and don't get any more smoke that VV N320. Must be the moly coats.

[Mattog22]

I'm using Zero FMJ bullets, not moly coated. Had let my powder sit in the thrower for a few weeks, maybe it deteriorated some?

[njl]

I'm using Zero FMJ bullets, not moly coated. Had let my powder sit in the thrower for a few weeks, maybe it deteriorated some?

I doubt that. I've loaded Precision Delta and Zero 230gr FMJ with Clays (3.7 to 4gr) and its smoky. I'm going to give WST a try.

[Mattog22]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong or had anything potentially dangerous going on. I guess I'll keep using it for now since recoil isn't bad and I hadn't noticed the smoke while shooting matches. It just alarmed me a bit when someone jokingly asked if I was shooting black powder on that stage. I wonder if it has anything to do with the lead at the base of the bullet of precision delta and zero bullets even though there isn't any lube on them there.

[JimmyZip]

It can depend on alot of things. Like if it's more humid, I used to shoot Titegroup and get the Choo-Choo comments when it was humid. I was running lead at the time and I think others noted the smoke more than I did myself. Oh well, try something else. Good luck.

JZ

[Mattog22]

It was extremely humid Saturday and that's the first time anyone said anything to me about the smoke. My friend actually said it looked like someone set a small fire inside the shoot house after I was finished.

[njl]

It's pretty much always humid here.

[njl]

I tried out WST today and was a little disappointed. Hodgdon's data for WST and 230gr FMJ is

4.1gr 733fps

to

4.9gr 848fps

I loaded 3 batches at 4.1, 4.3, and 4.5 at 1.240" with Zero 230gr FMJ. My goal is a soft shooting load that just makes major PF (about 720fps minimum). Based on Hodgdon's data, I figured a minimum or near minimum load with WST would do it. From the G21SF, I got averages of 688fps, 706fps, and 730fps. The 730fps string had a low of 707 and a high of 742. So that load probably makes major most of the time, but not by much. On the bright side, there's more room to increase the powder charge if I want to. All of them were pretty soft shooting. There was a little smoke, but not as bad as Clays. My 1911, which always runs faster than the G21, got 706, 728, and 758fps, though only that last string had all rounds make PF. Accuracy from all these loads was great. I kept having to tape over the center of the target and draw a new 1" black aiming dot.

I guess I like WST better than clays, because it gave less smoke, great accuracy, and it has plenty of room to increase the charge and easily make major without going beyond max or worrying about pressure.

[Mattog22]

Thanks njl for the report. I'll probably try something different as well after I burn through all my clays. I have an 8 lb jug from shotshell reloading I need to get through first. My friend took some of my loads, a different batch but same powder charge, and when he finished I asked him if he noticed any smoke and he said no. It was 94 and humid so Im puzzled.

[calishootr]

when i first got my limited toy, was running clays in it, and doing some drills and after 2 mags you couldnt basically grasp the slide, it was that hot, as for a 'cooler' powder i now shoot as i have in my .45's WST, which by all accounts a 'soft' felt recoil and 'cooler' burning than clays, the smoke you areseeing is a combination ofthe powder and the back ofthe bullet, on humid days, it will hang a lot more, so im told, im out here on the left coast, where its a 'dry' heat, 103 degrees today, but, it was a dry heat hehehe

[Mattog22]

I looked at the WST load data and it looks pretty good, low powder charge, lower pressure than clays, better velocity. I'll try it next.

[njl]

With WST and Clays, each at Hodgdon's minimum load, velocity is pretty similar. The difference is, Clays at max load just makes major (165pf, at least in my 21), while WST does that at about the middle of the load range. I should have loaded some hotter ones to chrono today, but I really didn't think I'd need them. I'm guessing 4.6 or 4.7 will be enough to comfortably make major with WST.

[Mattog22]

With WST and Clays, each at Hodgdon's minimum load, velocity is pretty similar. The difference is, Clays at max load just makes major (165pf, at least in my 21), while WST does that at about the middle of the load range. I should have loaded some hotter ones to chrono today, but I really didn't think I'd need them. I'm guessing 4.6 or 4.7 will be enough to comfortably make major with WST.

I'm using a 1911 so hopefully I'll have slightly higher velocities than the 21 and be OK with 4.5 gr. Thanks for the data from working up the load. Saves me a little time to get into the ballpark when the wife gives me only a few hours to get to the range to "get things figured out" before the next match.

[Bigpike]

I also have switched from Clays to WST. Couldn't make major with my XD-45 and Precision Delta 230 fmj. Am working with 4.4 gr WST and will know more after I chrono it but from the loading data it looks like it should make it. Biggest difference for me is that WST is MUCH more smoky than they Cays ever was. Guess this is what makes life an adventure.

[njl]

I also have switched from Clays to WST. Couldn't make major with my XD-45 and Precision Delta 230 fmj. Am working with 4.4 gr WST and will know more after I chrono it but from the loading data it looks like it should make it. Biggest difference for me is that WST is MUCH more smoky than they Cays ever was. Guess this is what makes life an adventure.

If its like my G21, 4.4 is probably going to be a little light for major. What OAL are you loading to? Perhaps if you're loading closer to min OAL.