BlackIce Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I have acquired a new issue.... I am flinching in anticipation of the recoil. Now I am low and to the left! If I really concentrate I can stop it from happening.... but my rate of fire slows down to a crawl. What can I do help alleviate this issue? Thanks BlackIce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDavis11 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Own any revolvers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Hi BlackIce, welcome to the Forums You say that if you concentrate, you can stop the flinching. So that means that it's not a "scared of the shot" reaction, right? So, you're probably jerking the trigger. If you're not scared of the shot, but just having problems with trigger control, I suggest dry fire....a lot of it. Learn to pull the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. You also might try a search on the forums here. I'm positive there's a whole bunch of advice posted before on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackIce Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 I never had this problem before... and when I dry fire I am a rock!!!! At time I feel like I am fighting the gun more than I should.... Trying to keep the barrel down for a second or third shot!!!! I need other method besides dry firing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 At time I feel like I am fighting the gun more than I should.... Trying to keep the barrel down for a second or third shot!!!! Sounds like you are "muscling" the gun. Try to be aware of any level of tension in your forearms and wrists while shooting. Maybe you could start shooting some shots into the berm at an approx. rate of one shot each .40 secs, with no actual target in front of you, to help concentrate on how you are actually holding your gun. Try to see if this drill will reveal tension in your grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Have an experienced person watch or show a tape to them. Relax too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 You are actually engaging the "recoil return" muscle set that brings the gun back down, but you are doing it before the shot is fired. I am starting to believe it's impossible to completely eliminate all forward movement of the gun during rapid fire (at least it is for me). As you said, slow fire you can lock it out. A good drill is as was suggested on another thread: I call it 'shot mapping". Load five and hang a target. Try to take a mental snapshot of the sight picture at each time the gun fires and make a map in your mind of where you think the shots will be when you bring in the target. In an indoor range, you can use the muzzle flash as a kind of background illumination of the sights at the instat of firing. Point is, in concentrating on doing that, you will quickly see if you are rotating the gun forward in anticipation of firing and you will be able to work on the timing of the trigger pull so that any forward push occurs ONLY AFTER the shot is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Blackie, I think Spook may be on to something. If it only happens when you are shooting fast, it may be that your trigger control is deteriorating at speed. All of our lives, our fingers have been trained to grasp things in unison. Getting the trigger finger "isolated" is a challenge sometimes. If all the other fingers tweak a little bit when the trigger is pressed, with a right handed shooter, the shots usually go low and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Sure sounds like a 'jerking' problem to me (and I should know--having jerked my way thru several thousand perfectly good rounds quite recently). Sam and I've been having extensive discussions about the 'trigger isolation' thing and taking the time to obtain a good sight picture in the first place, let alone regaining it after you fire. Gripping the gun TOO tightly will 'tensify' your arms, wrists, hands and fingers... causing loss of fine motor skill control of that trigger that you only want to deal with GENTLY, not with over-muscle....... Just my ubiquitous 2-cents...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 As long time forum members know I have had my battles with weak hand and I finally traced it down to non-isolation of the weak hand trigger finger during the trigger pull. Out of desparation I went back to my old anti-flinch drills to figure it out. Have someone load your magazine and insert snap caps into the mix so you have NO idea whether or not the round you just chambered is live or not. Concentrate on the sight picture and pay attention to what happens, especially on the dud rounds. In dry fire I could NOT see my sight picture deviating but using this drill I found it. I was "milking" the grip with my ring finger and middle finger on my weak hand in anticipation of the recoil and fear of dropping the pistol in recoil as I was pulling the trigger. This caused a deviation of the sight picture. In dry fire I knew there would be no recoil so no worries about dropping the pistol. What I actually did was to load up a bunch of rounds without primers or powder. I then filled the primer pockets with hot glue and cut it off flush with the back of the case after it had hardened. That way the firing pin wasn't bouncing off nothing. I then took a handfull of these duds and two handfulls of live rounds, put them into a bag and then without paying attention I loaded my mags at the range. Worked like a charm. In your case, repeated practice with this method could help train your grip to avoid these problems. I still suck at weak hand but it isn't because all my shots are going 4 - 6 inches to the right at 10 yards! And clearing the duds is excellent practice for clearing jams too, especially when done weak hand. I had never practiced clearing jams weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherlockWV Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Black Ice, A lot of good advice has already been provided. Suggest that you look at the various comments afforded me on this same forum under "Pulling Gun Down With the Trigger". Many, many good advice & encouragement offered there. Some by the same contributors to your situation. The bottom line for me (and it has been working) is to practice live fire and call each shot. Before, during & after the round. BE contributed some invaluable advice. On that thread I make reference to Flexmoney's suggestions to me via PM. Take a look. It can't hurt. Good & Safe Shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherlockWV Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Black Ice, As an after thought I recalled the use of extra hearing protection to help with "flinch" problems. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but with the quality of shooters on this site I am sure it would come eventually. My wife had a terrible flinch problem. But....it turned out that psychologically, she was anticipating the "sound" rather than the actual recoil. We worked on drills placing inserts in her ears plus her standard "ears". It helped a lot. Somehow, reducing the sensed sound helped her. I am too much of a newbie myself to understand it completly but I know that it helped. My Guru turned me on to this idea and I know that I have read that same suggestion on this site. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 "Flinching" isn't necessarily indicative of a problem in a more advanced shooter. When you're first learning to shoot, not flinching is one of the first steps on the road to accuracy and speed - right along with not blinking. But, don't let "never flinch" become the goal. The goal is to call 100% of your shots and for the front sight to drop back into the rear notch like it's on autopilot. Everything else is noise. One way to get a handle on the pre-shot flinching is to load up some dummy rounds and randomly mix them into your magazines. It will become patently obvious when you flinch. P.S. Don't *try* to do anything. That'll just screw you up more. You've got to *allow* things to happen. Matt Burkett and Brian have mucho tips that can help you on this if you surf around here for them. BE's book is an excellent resource if you don't have it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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