Relaoding 40 cal

[lexusmgr]

I am curious about results for relaoding the 40 cal. I have been reloading for many years and currently do everything from 32 to 308. I have recently acquaired a Beretta Centurion 40 cal and I am interested in reloading because of the savings versus factory ammo. I have read several accounts about the failure of these cases when fired from Glocks because of the bottom bulge.I had some 40 cal brass shot from a Glock. I did purchase a Lee die in 40 cal and I did notice the bulge when resizing the brass. I did drop-test the brass in my Beretta and it fits well, but my concern is the bulge. I have ordered a EGW 40 die and will resize my brass again when I receive it to try and remove the bulge at the bottom. I will be loading these with a 140 grain lead bullet and will keep all powder load at minimum until I get further results from the actual shooting. I dont know if anyone out there reloads for a Beretta, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this round and gun.

Any information will be greatly appreciated!

When reloading- SAFETY COMES FIRST!

[kevin c]

Welcome to the forums, Lexusmgr. You'll find lots of good stuff and even better company here.

The search function here will turn up a lot of info on what you're concerned about, but, to get you started, here's a brief review of the issues raised:

40 case failures in Glocks are not a myth, but they can happen in any gun, and may seem frequent in Glocks simply because of their ubiquity. The Glock "bulge" is real, and while I myself once thought that it might lead to case weakening, I have to admit I don't have any hard evidence showing that, or that it leads to case failures. The bulge comes from the way the ramp may cut into the floor of the chamber, and is not exclusive to Glock barrels. AAMOF, my old Taurus 40 (Beretta clone) does the same thing. I understand that newer Glocks have a new ramp/bbl configuration that reduces the bulge. Properly resized brass (and the EGW you're getting will do the job)and reasonable loads should work fine in your Beretta. Search the 40 cal reloading subforum and you should find lots of loads.

Again, welcome!

Kevin C

[MARKAVELI]

I too am a newb, I am curently reloading for my DE .44Mag on the RL550B, I am looking to start loading for my Glock 27(baby) .40 cal with in a month or so! I Want to get the conversion kits from Mr.BE to nervus to load this cal for safty reasons cuz i hear that the Dillon dies dont size compleatly! my questions are what do I need since I got the RL550B to properly load for this cartridge? will the dillon die be enough to do the job? is their a die I need to get? I too am looking to load safely! thanks ....

[MARKAVELI]

Oya Lex, Welcome! great place here lots of gr8 people so far that shared me good wisdom. again welcome to the forum!

[chaosshooter00]

I too am a newbie to all this. I have been shooting USPSA since late Feb. and just got my first reload press. It is a RL550B, I have all the dies, but am trying to find a good recipe for my STI .40 to shoot major. The guys here use Red Dot and I may be out of my league, but I'm not a big fan of it. Is there a powder comparable that will keep the power factor up and not turn my gun into a mess after a couple hundred rounds?

[ncboiler]

I too am a newbie to all this. I have been shooting USPSA since late Feb. and just got my first reload press. It is a RL550B, I have all the dies, but am trying to find a good recipe for my STI .40 to shoot major. The guys here use Red Dot and I may be out of my league, but I'm not a big fan of it. Is there a powder comparable that will keep the power factor up and not turn my gun into a mess after a couple hundred rounds?

You can start here and use this as a reference. Also, take some time to go through the .40 subform of the Reloading section.

If you are new to reloading, make sure you get a couple of good books and read through them a couple times. Take it slow until you get comfortable with it.

[CocoBolo]

Get some 180gr bullets, they shoot a lot softer. To get rid of the buldge get a Redding GRX, you use it in a single stage press. It takes the buldge out and you can even run loaded rounds thru it if need be. The U-Die helps but its no cure.

When loading hot go for long 1.140 (FN) or longer if they fit in the mags and run in the gun. The longer the better up to 1.200. Don't know how long the Beretta will take and it will vary by bullet profile. Short 40's tend to split and blow the tops off when the brass gets a little worn out.

Good powders for 40 are WST, Solo 1000, 231, N320. TiteGroup is good with jacketed bullets. With lead and moly a good bell so you don't shave the bullet else you will spend most of your time getting it out of the barrel.

170pf load in 5" gun: 180gr FN Jacketed Zero or MTG set OAL to 1.140 for most guns or 1.180 for STI/SVI. 5.1gr of WST. If you have N320 5.0gr. This is a hot load drop down .2 or .3 to start and work up. Use SPP primers WInchester, CCI, MaxTec, or Federal.

170 pf Lead or Moly - 180gr lead or moly bullet 4.8gr WST or 4.6gr of N320. Keep it long 1.140 to 1.180.

Always drop down a bit and work it up. Crono and watch your primers for signs of Pressure.

USE A TAPER CRIMP DIE. DO NOT USE LEE FCD ON LEAD OR MOLY COATED BULLETS. Ok for Jacketed bullets.

Have fun.

Edited June 11, 2010 by CocoBolo

[Walküre]

Good powders for 40 are WST, Solo 1000, 231, N320. TiteGroup is good with jacketed bullets. With lead and moly a good bell so you don't shave the bullet else you will spend most of your time getting it out of the barrel.

If running 180gr, only if you are either ( a ) loading Minor or ( b ) loading long.

I have to load near factory OAL for my TS; I used to use WST for .45ACP and still had quite a bit around, so I decided to try it. At only 163PF, it was absolutely flattening the primers. Others have experienced split cases when loading shorter Major loads with WST. I would not recommend it if you can't load long.

I myself like Universal, and we do have several locals here who use Titegroup to great effect. N320 is supposed to be absolutely excellent, but VV powders are harder to get locally and significantly more expensive - not worth it to me, but YMMV.

I have also run loads with Power Pistol, Bullseye, and W231. 231 seemed to work rather well, but I didn't pursue it further because of the extreme lack of availability (my go-to loads in .45 and 9mm are both with W231, so I need all I can get to maintain those calibers as it is). The PP loads were a little harsher in recoil than other loads (understandable given the significantly greater charge weight). The Bullseye loads worked fairly well, but the Universal Clays loads ended up turning out dang near perfect, edging out Bullseye when I finally settled down for good.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Walküre

[CocoBolo]

Good powders for 40 are WST, Solo 1000, 231, N320. TiteGroup is good with jacketed bullets. With lead and moly a good bell so you don't shave the bullet else you will spend most of your time getting it out of the barrel.

If running 180gr, only if you are either ( a ) loading Minor or ( b ) loading long.

I have to load near factory OAL for my TS; I used to use WST for .45ACP and still had quite a bit around, so I decided to try it. At only 163PF, it was absolutely flattening the primers. Others have experienced split cases when loading shorter Major loads with WST. I would not recommend it if you can't load long.

I myself like Universal, and we do have several locals here who use Titegroup to great effect. N320 is supposed to be absolutely excellent, but VV powders are harder to get locally and significantly more expensive - not worth it to me, but YMMV.

I have also run loads with Power Pistol, Bullseye, and W231. 231 seemed to work rather well, but I didn't pursue it further because of the extreme lack of availability (my go-to loads in .45 and 9mm are both with W231, so I need all I can get to maintain those calibers as it is). The PP loads were a little harsher in recoil than other loads (understandable given the significantly greater charge weight). The Bullseye loads worked fairly well, but the Universal Clays loads ended up turning out dang near perfect, edging out Bullseye when I finally settled down for good.

I ran a TS for a year using WST loading at 1.140 about all that gun can handle. In about 25K rounds I split 2 cases and blew the top off of one. The result of that was a bad stage each time. Power Pistol works ok in an open gun, Bullseye is a little snappy for me. But you hit it load long, and if you can't load long go to a slower powder. Universal is slower and I primarly use it in 45 when I want to punch it up to about 200 pf, so for short storking guns like the TS it could be a very good answer. I hated to sell it, I think it actually will out shoot an S_I in the right hands.

[G-ManBart]

Good powders for 40 are WST, Solo 1000, 231, N320. TiteGroup is good with jacketed bullets. With lead and moly a good bell so you don't shave the bullet else you will spend most of your time getting it out of the barrel.

If running 180gr, only if you are either ( a ) loading Minor or ( b ) loading long.

I have to load near factory OAL for my TS; I used to use WST for .45ACP and still had quite a bit around, so I decided to try it. At only 163PF, it was absolutely flattening the primers. Others have experienced split cases when loading shorter Major loads with WST. I would not recommend it if you can't load long.

I myself like Universal, and we do have several locals here who use Titegroup to great effect. N320 is supposed to be absolutely excellent, but VV powders are harder to get locally and significantly more expensive - not worth it to me, but YMMV.

I have also run loads with Power Pistol, Bullseye, and W231. 231 seemed to work rather well, but I didn't pursue it further because of the extreme lack of availability (my go-to loads in .45 and 9mm are both with W231, so I need all I can get to maintain those calibers as it is). The PP loads were a little harsher in recoil than other loads (understandable given the significantly greater charge weight). The Bullseye loads worked fairly well, but the Universal Clays loads ended up turning out dang near perfect, edging out Bullseye when I finally settled down for good.

I ran a TS for a year using WST loading at 1.140 about all that gun can handle. In about 25K rounds I split 2 cases and blew the top off of one. The result of that was a bad stage each time. Power Pistol works ok in an open gun, Bullseye is a little snappy for me. But you hit it load long, and if you can't load long go to a slower powder. Universal is slower and I primarly use it in 45 when I want to punch it up to about 200 pf, so for short storking guns like the TS it could be a very good answer. I hated to sell it, I think it actually will out shoot an S_I in the right hands.

Loading longer doesn't change pressure limits, it simply increases the amount of powder neede to get to the same pressure. If the book max says something like 5gr at 1.10" going up to 1.140" will let you go a little higher than 5gr, but you'll only be getting the pressure and velocity that you would have at the shorter OAL and lower charge. There might be a tiny bit of difference in pressure curve, but it's not normally going to be dramatic, and the max isn't going to change a useful amount. If someone is flattening primers and not making power factor at a shorter OAL, going longer will make them add powder to where they're back flattening primers and still not making PF. Then it simply becomes time for a different powder or bullet. R,

[GrumpyOne]

Welcome to the forums, Lexusmgr. You'll find lots of good stuff and even better company here.

The search function here will turn up a lot of info on what you're concerned about, but, to get you started, here's a brief review of the issues raised:

40 case failures in Glocks are not a myth, but they can happen in any gun, and may seem frequent in Glocks simply because of their ubiquity. The Glock "bulge" is real, and while I myself once thought that it might lead to case weakening, I have to admit I don't have any hard evidence showing that, or that it leads to case failures. The bulge comes from the way the ramp may cut into the floor of the chamber, and is not exclusive to Glock barrels. AAMOF, my old Taurus 40 (Beretta clone) does the same thing. I understand that newer Glocks have a new ramp/bbl configuration that reduces the bulge. Properly resized brass (and the EGW you're getting will do the job)and reasonable loads should work fine in your Beretta. Search the 40 cal reloading subforum and you should find lots of loads.

Again, welcome!

Kevin C

+100 Maybe we should get MythBusters involved. I've loaded thousands of 40 S&W, with all kinds of brass. Never had the first separation from any brass. To me, the Glock bulge is just an identifier as to what gun fired the round, which I really don't care about anyway, cause I'm gonna re-size it and shoot it anyway. Glocked Shmocked, re-size it and shoot it.

Edited June 11, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[GrumpyOne]

I too am a newbie to all this. I have been shooting USPSA since late Feb. and just got my first reload press. It is a RL550B, I have all the dies, but am trying to find a good recipe for my STI .40 to shoot major. The guys here use Red Dot and I may be out of my league, but I'm not a big fan of it. Is there a powder comparable that will keep the power factor up and not turn my gun into a mess after a couple hundred rounds?

Try anywhere inbetween 5.6 grains and 7.6 grains (very hot load,barely flattening primers though) of Alliant Power Pistol. I started loading with PP, and 16 lbs later, am still loading most of my 40 ammo with it. Meters very well, very clean, inexpensive (around $54 for 4 lbs), almost impossible to double charge a case with it.

[MARKAVELI]

Welcome to the forums, Lexusmgr. You'll find lots of good stuff and even better company here.

The search function here will turn up a lot of info on what you're concerned about, but, to get you started, here's a brief review of the issues raised:

40 case failures in Glocks are not a myth, but they can happen in any gun, and may seem frequent in Glocks simply because of their ubiquity. The Glock "bulge" is real, and while I myself once thought that it might lead to case weakening, I have to admit I don't have any hard evidence showing that, or that it leads to case failures. The bulge comes from the way the ramp may cut into the floor of the chamber, and is not exclusive to Glock barrels. AAMOF, my old Taurus 40 (Beretta clone) does the same thing. I understand that newer Glocks have a new ramp/bbl configuration that reduces the bulge. Properly resized brass (and the EGW you're getting will do the job)and reasonable loads should work fine in your Beretta. Search the 40 cal reloading subforum and you should find lots of loads.

Again, welcome!

Kevin C

+100 Maybe we should get MythBusters involved. I've loaded thousands of 40 S&W, with all kinds of brass. Never had the first separation from any brass. To me, the Glock bulge is just an identifier as to what gun fired the round, which I really don't care about anyway, cause I'm gonna re-size it and shoot it anyway. Glocked Shmocked, re-size it and shoot it.

SO GLOCK SHMOCKED! The redding GPX & THE u die are a not needed piece of equipment for loading .40 cal? and the dillon dies will do fine? I got a Glock .40 cal I will be loading for?...

[G-ManBart]

SO GLOCK SHMOCKED! The redding GPX & THE u die are a not needed piece of equipment for loading .40 cal? and the dillon dies will do fine? I got a Glock .40 cal I will be loading for?...

If you're going to be using the ammo in anything with a reasonably tight chamber you'll probably need to use a U-die or a GRX. I think what Grumpy is saying is that just because the brass has been shot in a Glock or other gun that leaves a guppy belly, it doesn't make it more likely to fail. I've taken cases fired in a Glock and then U-die resized them (I have a shell holder that lets the U-die get within a couple thousandths of the extractor groove) and then shot them out of my Limited and SS guns, and reloaded/shot them again and again until the headstamps were barely readable and the case mouths started splitting...no burst cases etc.

I will say that in .40 I won't reload brass marked "FC" (it's a Federal product)....those have a history of failing. R,

[chaosshooter00]

I too am a newbie to all this. I have been shooting USPSA since late Feb. and just got my first reload press. It is a RL550B, I have all the dies, but am trying to find a good recipe for my STI .40 to shoot major. The guys here use Red Dot and I may be out of my league, but I'm not a big fan of it. Is there a powder comparable that will keep the power factor up and not turn my gun into a mess after a couple hundred rounds?

You can start here and use this as a reference. Also, take some time to go through the .40 subform of the Reloading section.

If you are new to reloading, make sure you get a couple of good books and read through them a couple times. Take it slow until you get comfortable with it.

I'm guessing I was a little vague (first forum). I shoot a custom STI .40 with a 5" Accumatch barrel. Just crono'ed my first batch of Red Dot @ 1.120 OAL and 4.2 grains- 180 grain molly= 887 fps= 159.6pf, a little short of the mark. Also ran VV3n37 @5.5 grains= same numbers, VV N320 @ 4.1 grains= same numbers. Is there a math equation to figure out how much to use or just keep adding until I get there?

[GrumpyOne]

SO GLOCK SHMOCKED! The redding GPX & THE u die are a not needed piece of equipment for loading .40 cal? and the dillon dies will do fine? I got a Glock .40 cal I will be loading for?...

If you're going to be using the ammo in anything with a reasonably tight chamber you'll probably need to use a U-die or a GRX. I think what Grumpy is saying is that just because the brass has been shot in a Glock or other gun that leaves a guppy belly, it doesn't make it more likely to fail. I've taken cases fired in a Glock and then U-die resized them (I have a shell holder that lets the U-die get within a couple thousandths of the extractor groove) and then shot them out of my Limited and SS guns, and reloaded/shot them again and again until the headstamps were barely readable and the case mouths started splitting...no burst cases etc.

I will say that in .40 I won't reload brass marked "FC" (it's a Federal product)....those have a history of failing. R,

That's exactly what I was saying. If the chamber on you gun is generous, then the Redding and the U die aren't really necessary, but if it is a tight chamber....

I also agree with the statement about FC brass....

Edited June 12, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[G-ManBart]

I'm guessing I was a little vague (first forum). I shoot a custom STI .40 with a 5" Accumatch barrel. Just crono'ed my first batch of Red Dot @ 1.120 OAL and 4.2 grains- 180 grain molly= 887 fps= 159.6pf, a little short of the mark. Also ran VV3n37 @5.5 grains= same numbers, VV N320 @ 4.1 grains= same numbers. Is there a math equation to figure out how much to use or just keep adding until I get there?

No, there really isn't a formula. After you've worked up loads with a certain powder you'll have a pretty good idea what it'll take with similar bullets, but that's about it.

3N37 is going to have more recoil and flip than you want. It also puts a lot of heat in the gun. It's a good Open 9 Major powder, but is too slow for .40 Major in anything that's not compensated.

I haven't loaded .40 with Red Dot, so I can't help there, but with N320 you're not going to find a whole lot of data published with 180gr lead/moly. VV lists 4.3gr at 1010fps, but that's at a factory length OAL. If you're loading long, you're probably going to need something along the lines of 4.5gr to get into the 170+PF range that will give you some cushion at the chrono. Most folks running jacketed 180s need something like 4.8 to 5gr (give or take) to get 170+. R,

[calishootr]

I have been running dillon dies, and i think there is an RCBS as well, to load my .40(both short and long) for my Glocks and my limited guns, and have had no real problems(ok some breechface erosion from some brass that had some sloppy primer pockets and should have been tossed, as for powder??? hey, im a dyed in the wool fan of WST for my .40's, it 'was' cheap back a couple yrs(i got itfor 10 bucks a lb) meters well, burns extremly clean, and soft 'felt' recoil

[MARKAVELI]

SO GLOCK SHMOCKED! The redding GPX & THE u die are a not needed piece of equipment for loading .40 cal? and the dillon dies will do fine? I got a Glock .40 cal I will be loading for?...

If you're going to be using the ammo in anything with a reasonably tight chamber you'll probably need to use a U-die or a GRX. I think what Grumpy is saying is that just because the brass has been shot in a Glock or other gun that leaves a guppy belly, it doesn't make it more likely to fail. I've taken cases fired in a Glock and then U-die resized them (I have a shell holder that lets the U-die get within a couple thousandths of the extractor groove) and then shot them out of my Limited and SS guns, and reloaded/shot them again and again until the headstamps were barely readable and the case mouths started splitting...no burst cases etc.

I will say that in .40 I won't reload brass marked "FC" (it's a Federal product)....those have a history of failing. R,

That's exactly what I was saying. If the chamber on you gun is generous, then the Redding and the U die aren't really necessary, but if it is a tight chamber....

I also agree with the statement about FC brass....

Okay federal brass, not so good.. how can I tell if "the chamber is generous?" Does Mr.BE sell the GRX & the U die on this web site if I want to get them? what would be a good reasonal price for them?

[GrumpyOne]

Generous is in the eye of the beholder! Put a "Glocked" piece of brass in the barrel (after you have taken the barrel out of the gun) and see if it has some wiggle room. If it does, I would suggest that your chamber is generous! Which it's gonna be, unless you have a match barrel. If you are shooting a stock Glock barrel (Glock 27(baby) .40 cal ), I would just assume it's generous.

[BayouSlide]

Recently picked up a used STI Eagle 5 in. for Limited after years of shooting a Glock 9mm. My standard Dillon 10mm/.40 resizing die works fine with brass previously shot through Glocks. I've had IIRC only two 10mm cases that wouldn't gauge due to a bulge, but never a problem with a .40S&W. I do use the LFC die. With a Zero 180 JHP loaded to 1.183, 4.7 grs of Titegroup nets me a PF of 171, but 4.6 cuts it a little too close for comfort at 167. As always YMMV.

Curtis

[MARKAVELI]

Generous is in the eye of the beholder! Put a "Glocked" piece of brass in the barrel (after you have taken the barrel out of the gun) and see if it has some wiggle room. If it does, I would suggest that your chamber is generous! Which it's gonna be, unless you have a match barrel. If you are shooting a stock Glock barrel (Glock 27(baby) .40 cal ), I would just assume it's generous.

What is the meanining of "Match Barrel?" (might be a crazy newb question.) do all glocks have that buldge(.45ACP & 9MM)? oh ya do i test it with a compleated 40.cal reload cartridgeor a empty? Thanks grump you & the rest on this forum are very knowledgeable!

[G-ManBart]

Okay federal brass, not so good.. how can I tell if "the chamber is generous?" Does Mr.BE sell the GRX & the U die on this web site if I want to get them? what would be a good reasonal price for them?

Actually, if the brass is marked "Federal", it's fine. It's just the "FC" marked brass that you want to avoid. I'm not sure if BE sells the GRX, but lots of reloading supply places carry it. I'm also not sure if BE carries U-dies. They can be ordered directly from Lee, but you have to contact them as they're not listed on the website. Most folks get them from EGW (Evolution Gun Works). R,

[GrumpyOne]

Generous is in the eye of the beholder! Put a "Glocked" piece of brass in the barrel (after you have taken the barrel out of the gun) and see if it has some wiggle room. If it does, I would suggest that your chamber is generous! Which it's gonna be, unless you have a match barrel. If you are shooting a stock Glock barrel (Glock 27(baby) .40 cal ), I would just assume it's generous.

What is the meanining of "Match Barrel?" (might be a crazy newb question.) do all glocks have that buldge(.45ACP & 9MM)? oh ya do i test it with a compleated 40.cal reload cartridgeor a empty? Thanks grump you & the rest on this forum are very knowledgeable!

I bet all kinds of weird things were going through your head, wondering about match barrels....

Match barrel AKA after market barrel, a barrel made to tighter tolerances than a stock barrel. I don't know if "the bulge" is apparent in other than the 9mm and 40 (I've reloaded lots of "Glocked" 40 brass, but I don't reload 9mm, but I have seen it bulged as well) and I just don't pay attention too much to 45 brass, as I usually only pick up my own. Test it with a completed round, as that is what you will be shooting. When you fire a round, the brass stretches to the chamber of the gun. It contracts some, but not all the way back to the original size. When you reload a round, the sizer die brings it back to the correct dimensions, so test with a completed round.

Edited June 12, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[calishootr]

+1 test it with a loaded/completed round, an 'easy' test is to barrel drop your rounds, those that dont go just under flush with the barrel hood, 'may' have problems with, again depending on your barrel, generous or not, other people will go out an buy a case guage for the particular caliber, tho that is a lil misleading too, as the guage is usually 1 or 2 thou under size, so rounds that may not go in the guage, still will go in the barrel, half the time my 9mm will not go in the guage for whatever reason, but will drop in some barrels