Link to Glock Mag Release Thread

[Duane Thomas]

A link to a thread on a USPSA/IPSC Production (and therefore IDPA SSP) division legal Glock magazine release button. Note post #4. Interesting!

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107477&pid=1222959&st=0entry1222959

[Steve Koski]

Are these mid lengths for old style Glocks, or 4th Gen?

Semi-related:

I've found that with the larger pad on the 4th gen mag releases, I still have to rotate the gun in my hand to activate it. I wonder if an extended big 4th gen mag release (or a mid-length) would eliminate the rotation need.

Are there longer mag releases available for 4th gen Glocks yet?

[cslafrain]

This may be a stupid question. But why is a mid length necessary? What is the deal with table loading? I am an IDPA guy (never shot USPSA) so I am unfamiliar with Production Class.

[Duane Thomas]

With the long "competition" mag release, for a right handed shooter, if the stage description requires you to begin with the gun laying flat on a table (on its left side, natch, because that will be necessary for a nightie to grab the gun in any short of timely fashion) and you push down on the gun at all when grabbing it, that will activate the magazine release button, you'll then fire the first shot, at which time the magazine falls out of the gun.

[CrankyCrash]

It is also a problem in some IDPA matches that have a starting position with the gun in the IDPA box or on a table.

Right-handers have problems because they inevitably push the gun down and accidentally release the magazine or they tab the mag release as they are picking it up.

I've seen folks pick up the gun, mag drops to the ground, they fire the round that's in the chamber and the SO awards a procedural because they had a mag on the ground with ammo in it ... yepper, that's illegal in IDPA ...

I love it, cuz I'm a lefty and don't have the problem

[Greg Bell]

I've seen folks pick up the gun, mag drops to the ground, they fire the round that's in the chamber and the SO awards a procedural because they had a mag on the ground with ammo in it ... yepper, that's illegal in IDPA ...

I beg to differ on that, sounds like a malfunction to me. Now if a shooter has a history of "convenient" malfunctions then maybe.

Duane,

Thanks for the heads up I hadn't seen that other thread sounds interesting. The Glock extended ones dig into me, this mid length may be the ticket.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Greg Bell

[lugnut]

I've seen folks pick up the gun, mag drops to the ground, they fire the round that's in the chamber and the SO awards a procedural because they had a mag on the ground with ammo in it ... yepper, that's illegal in IDPA ...

I beg to differ on that, sounds like a malfunction to me. Now if a shooter has a history of "convenient" malfunctions then maybe.

+1 Also- there is nothing to be gained by doing this intentionally.

[Steve Koski]

I've seen folks pick up the gun, mag drops to the ground, they fire the round that's in the chamber and the SO awards a procedural because they had a mag on the ground with ammo in it ... yepper, that's illegal in IDPA ...

There's no way that is a procedural unless you leave that position and leave the partial mag behind.

I'm inclined to not use the "Malfunction Clearing Exception" rule here. The shooter is not clearing a malfunction that may have been caused by the magazine, the shooter has made an error. The gun and magazine performed exactly as designed. If he leaves without that mag, I'd ding him.

"Malfunction Clearing Exception: When clearing a malfunction,

the magazine or speedloader that may have caused the malfunction

does not need to be retained by the shooter and will incur no

penalty."

Edited June 3, 2010 by Steve Koski

[CrankyCrash]

I've seen folks pick up the gun, mag drops to the ground, they fire the round that's in the chamber and the SO awards a procedural because they had a mag on the ground with ammo in it ... yepper, that's illegal in IDPA ...

There's no way that is a procedural unless you leave that position and leave the partial mag behind.

I'm inclined to not use the "Malfunction Clearing Exception" rule here. The shooter is not clearing a malfunction that may have been caused by the magazine, the shooter has made an error. The gun and magazine performed exactly as designed. If he leaves without that mag, I'd ding him.

"Malfunction Clearing Exception: When clearing a malfunction,

the magazine or speedloader that may have caused the malfunction

does not need to be retained by the shooter and will incur no

penalty."

Unfortunately, I couldn't find this specific situation in the rulebook. However, I have received a procedural for doing a similar action at a Regional level match several years ago. I was shooting a course of fire, accidentally ejected my partially loaded magazine, fired the chambered round, then bent down to pick up the magazine to stow it. I was kneeling behind cover at the time I dropped the mag and fired the round. This was the last target of the CoF so there was no other targets to move and shoot.

You are right, it definitely is not an equipment malfunction at all.

[Steve Koski]

CC: I don't think your SO had a thorough understanding of the rules. I can't find a rule you violated.

You didn't violate this rule:

n. Any time a loaded ammunition feeding device

(magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dropped

from the carrier during a course of fire.

You didn't violate this rule:

1. A three (3) second procedural penalty will be assessed any

time a loaded ammunition feeding device (magazine,

speedloader or full moon clip) is dislodged and falls out of the

carrier during a course of fire. Dropping a loaded ammunition

feeding device during a reload is not a procedural as long as the

competitor does not leave ammunition behind.

You didn't violate this rule:

b. The competitor fails to retain ammo when a tacload/

RWR is specified. (See Appendix TWO-Approved

IDPA Reloads-Malfunction Clearing Exception.)

You didn't violate this rule:

All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and

must be completed before leaving cover. A shooter is deemed

loaded and may move from a position of cover ONLY when the

fresh magazine is FULLY SEATED and the slide is fully forward

or revolver cylinder is closed. Shooters may not move from one

position of cover to another with an empty gun.

You didn't do a speed load.

Reload, Speed or Slide Down: Recharging the gun when there is

a round in the chamber by:

Dropping the partial magazine on the ground.

Drawing a spare magazine.

Inserting the spare magazine into the gun.

Leaving the partial or empty magazine behind.

NOTE: There is NO provision for the speed reload in IDPA

competition.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Steve Koski

[Steve Koski]

Thinking more...

If you accidentally drop the mag from the gun on the ground, then grab one from your belt, reload, and continue firing, you have done a speed load. Perhaps unintentionally, but a speed load just the same: PE or FTDR.

If you drop the mag from the gun and simply fire the round from the chamber, no penalty.

[JonInWA]

A link to a thread on a USPSA/IPSC Production (and therefore IDPA SSP) division legal Glock magazine release button. Note post #4. Interesting!

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107477&pid=1222959&st=0entry1222959

Yes, it's interesting, but unavailable. The mid-length magazine release apparently is a component limited specifically to the FBI, and is not available to others (at least as far as I know); it's considered to be a "close hold" item even within Glock.

The Vickers/Tango Down product is viable for IDPA, but its use will by definition move you from SSP to ESP-apparently as will modifying (by cutting down) the Glock extended magazine release.

FWIW, while I'm certainly not the best shooter in the universe, I've never really encountered any problems with either the OEM Glock "standard" magazine release on my G17, G19, G21 or with the OEM extended release on my G34 in IDPA. I see the mid-length release as being a nice-to-have incrimental improvement, but not an essential one (but fairness compels me to admit that I'd probably install 'em on my Glocks if the OEM Glock part became available).

Best, Jon