9mm crimp question

[drysideshooter]

I've been reloading for years, but just recently started reloading quite a bit of 9mm. My 10yo son and I are shooting USPSA matches and between a couple of matches a month and range practice I'm needing to reload about 2k 9mm a month.

I'm currently using Lee 9mm dies, the four die set with the carbide resizing die and the factory crimp die. I've been loading everything in a single stage press using my RCBS chargemaster dispenser but just ordered a Hornady LNL.

Everything I've read says that the case mouth on a loaded round should be .381 or less, with .379 -.380 or slightly less being preferable. Without using the factory crimp die at all, and with the bullet seating die set towards the minimum listed setting for initial crimp my rounds are coming out at .378 at the case mouth. They always feed well in my son's XDM and in my XDM as well. Would there be any sense using the factory crimp die?

Part of the reason I ask is that I know the LNL has 5 stations. I plan to use the RCBS lockout powder check die in one, which means I wouldn't have a spot to use the factory crimp die. Thanks for any help or advice.

[CocoBolo]

I've been reloading for years, but just recently started reloading quite a bit of 9mm. My 10yo son and I are shooting USPSA matches and between a couple of matches a month and range practice I'm needing to reload about 2k 9mm a month.

I'm currently using Lee 9mm dies, the four die set with the carbide resizing die and the factory crimp die. I've been loading everything in a single stage press using my RCBS chargemaster dispenser but just ordered a Hornady LNL.

Everything I've read says that the case mouth on a loaded round should be .381 or less, with .379 -.380 or slightly less being preferable. Without using the factory crimp die at all, and with the bullet seating die set towards the minimum listed setting for initial crimp my rounds are coming out at .378 at the case mouth. They always feed well in my son's XDM and in my XDM as well. Would there be any sense using the factory crimp die?

Part of the reason I ask is that I know the LNL has 5 stations. I plan to use the RCBS lockout powder check die in one, which means I wouldn't have a spot to use the factory crimp die. Thanks for any help or advice.

First don't use the FCD on anything but Jacketed bullets. No good for Cast or Moly bullets. You can use the powder thru expander on the LNL and you will have room for the powder check. I use the Hornady Taper crimp die. With 9 mm there is a wide variance in brass thickness so I crimp till they all fit the drop check. I'm loading Major 9 mm so I can't have any setback or boom.

[drysideshooter]

I've been reloading for years, but just recently started reloading quite a bit of 9mm. My 10yo son and I are shooting USPSA matches and between a couple of matches a month and range practice I'm needing to reload about 2k 9mm a month.

I'm currently using Lee 9mm dies, the four die set with the carbide resizing die and the factory crimp die. I've been loading everything in a single stage press using my RCBS chargemaster dispenser but just ordered a Hornady LNL.

Everything I've read says that the case mouth on a loaded round should be .381 or less, with .379 -.380 or slightly less being preferable. Without using the factory crimp die at all, and with the bullet seating die set towards the minimum listed setting for initial crimp my rounds are coming out at .378 at the case mouth. They always feed well in my son's XDM and in my XDM as well. Would there be any sense using the factory crimp die?

Part of the reason I ask is that I know the LNL has 5 stations. I plan to use the RCBS lockout powder check die in one, which means I wouldn't have a spot to use the factory crimp die. Thanks for any help or advice.

First don't use the FCD on anything but Jacketed bullets. No good for Cast or Moly bullets. You can use the powder thru expander on the LNL and you will have room for the powder check. I use the Hornady Taper crimp die. With 9 mm there is a wide variance in brass thickness so I crimp till they all fit the drop check. I'm loading Major 9 mm so I can't have any setback or boom.

Thanks CocoBolo. I should have mentioned that I am currently loading Montana Gold 124gr FMJ's. Will the powder thru expander Lee die work with the LNL powder measure or would I have to use a Lee powder measure?

I have been really anal about my brass, keeping it sorted by headstamp. I've had several folks tell me that for minor power I don't need to be so picky. Would it be okay to load mixed headstamp brass? I know there is a fair amount of variance in case volume because of the thickness of brass. I was thinking it might affect accuracy somewhat, but realize that at the ranges we're talking about shooting that it probably doesn't make enough of a difference to matter?

[wide45]

First don't use the FCD on anything but Jacketed bullets. No good for Cast or Moly bullets. You can use the powder thru expander on the LNL and you will have room for the powder check. I use the Hornady Taper crimp die. With 9 mm there is a wide variance in brass thickness so I crimp till they all fit the drop check. I'm loading Major 9 mm so I can't have any setback or boom.

My take is that this is backwards. FCD does nothing good for jacketed rounds, and can cause loose bullets. It can be useful with cheap lead that sometimes bulges. Use top quality bullets, load them properly, and you should never need the FCD.

Seating and crimping with the same die, will shave lead bullets. Best to separate the operations if you can.

[CocoBolo]

First don't use the FCD on anything but Jacketed bullets. No good for Cast or Moly bullets. You can use the powder thru expander on the LNL and you will have room for the powder check. I use the Hornady Taper crimp die. With 9 mm there is a wide variance in brass thickness so I crimp till they all fit the drop check. I'm loading Major 9 mm so I can't have any setback or boom.

My take is that this is backwards. FCD does nothing good for jacketed rounds, and can cause loose bullets. It can be useful with cheap lead that sometimes bulges. Use top quality bullets, load them properly, and you should never need the FCD.

Seating and crimping with the same die, will shave lead bullets. Best to separate the operations if you can.

My expierence with the FCD is that it undersizes cast and moly bullets and leads to excessive build up of lead in the barrel. Here is what precision says about it:

Do not use a roll crimp or Lee Factory Taper Crimp Dies.

The roll crimp will cut through the coating. You must use a taper crimp die.

The Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die will undersize the bullets causing accuracy and fouling problems.

Most of the time a heavier crimp will work better. Source = http://www.precisionbullets.com/faq.htm

I have used the FCD with Montana Gold bullets without an issue but see no benefit to it at all and find that it just adds extra effort to the process. I would not use it with a Zero its too good of a bullet to waste.

I've used Lee dies and load thousands of rounds with them and they work but I much prefer the Hornady New Deminsion dies. I even prefer the Dillon die but don't like the price of them.

To the original question, due to variations in brass you have to crimp to the point that gets all of them tight enough but not too much.

[kylethunder380]

I use the Lee FCD on all of my minor 9mm reloads, most of which were with moly coated bullets. I HAVE noticed the 'undersizing the bullet' issue but only with a couple brands of brass, so I sort those out and they are trashed. This happens even though I am fairly conservative with the crimp amount. I don't know what headstamps you typically use, but in my case the only problems are with *I*, CBC, PMP, which I never have a lot of anyway. The *I* seems to be the worst, I've seen the bullets literally fall right out of the case after crimping. These guys are correct in that you don't NEED the FCD, but if you would like to continue using it with similar bullets, my advice is to avoid those headstamps and stick with WIN, RP, Starline, SPEER, CCI, GFL, and FC brass. Hope this helps a little anyway.

-Kyle

[drysideshooter]

I use the Lee FCD on all of my minor 9mm reloads, most of which were with moly coated bullets. I HAVE noticed the 'undersizing the bullet' issue but only with a couple brands of brass, so I sort those out and they are trashed. This happens even though I am fairly conservative with the crimp amount. I don't know what headstamps you typically use, but in my case the only problems are with *I*, CBC, PMP, which I never have a lot of anyway. The *I* seems to be the worst, I've seen the bullets literally fall right out of the case after crimping. These guys are correct in that you don't NEED the FCD, but if you would like to continue using it with similar bullets, my advice is to avoid those headstamps and stick with WIN, RP, Starline, SPEER, CCI, GFL, and FC brass. Hope this helps a little anyway.

-Kyle

Thanks for the info, very good to know. I've pretty much been sticking witn Win and FC brass. The Win is deffinitely heavier, but the FC seems to load up just fine. I'm loading for minor, using 4.7gr of WSF, Montana Gold 124gr FMJ's and CCI primers. The brass is looking like it will last for several reloads. How many times would you say you average being able to reload quality brass with minor loads?

[kamikaze1a]

My 2¢, the FCD does wonders for a reload that has bulges or shooting in a chamber that is tight. And got to agree with the other posts about it sizing down lead bullets though.

As for mixed brass, I always sort them out but not because of concerns of load variation. I like to load one headstamp at a time because of primer seating pressure variations. I want the hard to prime all together. Easier to tell if it's a tight primer pocket or messed up alignment...

And I reload my brass until they split or the primer pocket gets too loose...

Edited May 16, 2010 by kamikaze1a

[CocoBolo]

I checked a few rounds and the crimp varies betwee .376 to .378 with 124gr MTG and assorted brass.

I'm not a fan of the FCD, I've used it on jacketed bullets and it works ok, I prefer a taper crimp die. I also used it on Precision Moly bullets and spent hours cleaning the barrels of my guns. After getting a taper crimp die gun cleaning only takes a few minutes.

Rejects from 9 mm range brass after loading runs about 1 or 2%. I use a CasePro 100 and have 1 or 2 out of a 100 that don't meet my standards which is very high, those go in the practice bucket. Match ammo has to be perfect if not why bother to check it.

[470nitro]

My 2¢, the FCD does wonders for a reload that has bulges or shooting in a chamber that is tight. And got to agree with the other posts about it sizing down lead bullets though.

As for mixed brass, I always sort them out but not because of concerns of load variation. I like to load one headstamp at a time because of primer seating pressure variations. I want the hard to prime all together. Easier to tell if it's a tight primer pocket or messed up alignment...

And I reload my brass until they split or the primer pocket gets too loose...

I agree 100% with the above. I shoot an M&P and this die almost always gets rid of unsupported chamber bulges. Still case gage 100% though but now losing only 5 or so rounds every 500 as opposed to many more. Lots of Glock shooters at my range who reload.

[NickAument]

I just mic'd my reloads and came out with .376 I checked some Winchester factory they were .375

your results may vary.....

[GrumpyOne]

I use the Lee FCD on all of my minor 9mm reloads, most of which were with moly coated bullets. I HAVE noticed the 'undersizing the bullet' issue but only with a couple brands of brass, so I sort those out and they are trashed. This happens even though I am fairly conservative with the crimp amount. I don't know what headstamps you typically use, but in my case the only problems are with *I*, CBC, PMP, which I never have a lot of anyway. The *I* seems to be the worst, I've seen the bullets literally fall right out of the case after crimping. These guys are correct in that you don't NEED the FCD, but if you would like to continue using it with similar bullets, my advice is to avoid those headstamps and stick with WIN, RP, Starline, SPEER, CCI, GFL, and FC brass. Hope this helps a little anyway.

-Kyle

Thanks for the info, very good to know. I've pretty much been sticking witn Win and FC brass. The Win is deffinitely heavier, but the FC seems to load up just fine. I'm loading for minor, using 4.7gr of WSF, Montana Gold 124gr FMJ's and CCI primers. The brass is looking like it will last for several reloads. How many times would you say you average being able to reload quality brass with minor loads?

How many times can you reload a 9mm brass with a minor load? That's like the old Tootsie pop question...No one knows for sure...I think most get lost before they find out, like somewhere around 15 or so...