Can I have really seen this?

[Aglifter]

I shot a steel match last weekend, and I think I would hear the shot before I saw the impact on the target (while watching others shoot.) I've seen "bullets" once or twice, but I didn't think there'd be a noticeable gap between hearing a shot and the impact of the bullet. Is this possible, or am I confused?

[G-ManBart]

Hmmm...depending on how close to the shooter you were, I guess it's possible. At sea level the speed of sound is roughly 1100fps. If the bullet was going the same speed it would simply be a matter of which one you're close to...likely the shooter/gun. R,

[tt350z]

It's possible, speed of sound is roughly 1125 FPS. A 230g .45 ACP travels at about 850 FPS. You'd be able to hear the shot before the bullet impact if you were at the same distance from the shooter as the steel.

[chirpy]

Depending on where the sun was, I have seen bullets many times or the reflection off the base.

FWIW

Richard

[Jeff686]

It's possible, speed of sound is roughly 1125 FPS. A 230g .45 ACP travels at about 850 FPS. You'd be able to hear the shot before the bullet impact if you were at the same distance from the shooter as the steel.

Actually, to maximize the chance of hearing the shot, you want to be as close to the shooter as possible. If the steel is 50ft from the shooter, there's 106ms delay between hearing the sounds. If the steel is 50 yards, that's 320ms.

If you were to stand next to the steel, the delay would be the shortest, 10ms for the 50ft steel, and 33ms for 50 yard steel.

If you're not standing right next to the shooter, the time it takes the sound of the gun shot to travel to your ears is ALWAYS working to decrease the delay between the two sounds.

Since we routinely hear two distinct gunshots when people are shooting 2-alpha on paper, and those splits can be as low as 150 ms, it think it is reasonable to expect to hear bang-ting when shooting steel.

(edit: actually, now that I think about it, anywhere directly behind the shooter would yield the same resut, but as soon as you are off-center, the vector math works against you.)

Now, seeing the bullet strike..

Again, you want to stand as close to the shooter as possible, so the sound delay doesn't subtract from the possible difference between the events.

At 50 feet, if you are standing next to the shooter, there is a 58ms delay between the sound and the sight of impact.

At 50 yards, the delay is 176ms.

Considering that a 30 frames/second video appears fluid, but not high quality, the eye/brain is probably right at the edge of detecting separate images instead of fluid motion. 30 frames per second is about 33ms between frames. So, as a wild guess, it is likely that anything under 33ms delay can be perceived. However, since in the above question, we are mixing auditory and visual response times of the brain... who knows.

I do think that 176ms (50 yard steel), is EASILY noticed.

(edit: in this case, since the speed of light is so much faster than sound, the best place to stand is still right near the shooter. If you move farther back, the sound-sight delay shrinks.)

Edited May 14, 2010 by Jeff686

[AlamoShooter]

its real common with a revolver on the Speed Option stage. One time I was real happy in that = I had what I called as a miss on the long stop and was pulling the make up as the dirt kicked up.

The speed of sight and thought is what makes Steel a good game, you can allways learn somethig if you stay sharp

[benos]

its real common with a revolver on the Speed Option stage. One time I was real happy in that = I had what I called as a miss on the long stop and was pulling the make up as the dirt kicked up.

Yea, a make up shot on the Speed Option stop plate is a real loser if you don't immediately call the miss.

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