rtr Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'm a C class production shooter. When I go and practice I guess I don't feel like I'm really improving, just blasting away. So I want some drills. I think my draw is ok, my shooting on the move is ok, my reloads are ok, my problems I think are in shooting speed (ie splits) and target transitions being too slow. I think my trigger control is good, but my splits are too high (usually around .5 sec), so what are some good drills to help with these two problems? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I remember being where you are. Here's my cure. Set up a target at the end of the range. Start at 3 feet, draw and fire two A's. Take 2 steps back and repeat. Take 2 steps back and repeat. Do that until you're out of range, at least back to 25 yards. Notice I said fire two A's, not two shots. This will teach you what you need to see. Also, do some Bill Drills...lot's of 'em at various distancs and MAKE SURE you shoot all A's. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 try this: http://www.brianenos.com/pages/reviews.html and this: https://host28.ipowerweb.com/~maxmiche/stor...n&product=Books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Try the practice drills Matt Burkett lists on his website. Most of these can be done dry at home and yes, they really work if you put in the work. This link will give you the list of tips and drills available on Matt's site. http://www.mattburkett.com/catindx1.html -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 The good ole El Presidente is a great one to practice. Easy to track your progress too. And you can practice the same thing and eliminate the turning draw if you want to. Also, experiment when practicing. Find your limits. You'll know when you are out of control, you'll feel it and notice the bad hits. Back the speed down til you are in control. That is your limit at that point in time. Practice at that limit and see what it feels like. Then experiment some more. Shooting is a constent experiment, at least it is to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 Thanks guys, I went out and did some bill drills, pretty consistent in the 5-5.5 second range, did a few around 4.5 sec. How can I speed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 What was your draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 Draw averaged just over 2, fastest was 1.97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 It's looking like you splits are painfully slow. First...the foundation. You will need a good platform. Check out the "Grip & Stance" info that is in Matt Burkett's Shooting Tips section of his website. If that is good, then I think you would benefit from just shooting into the berm. NO AIMING. The idea is to shoot as fast as you can...without getting tense...and to watch the front sight as it moves in recoil. Watch that front sight (if you aren't seeing it, let us know)...get your timing to where you are breaking the next shot as soon as the front sight returns to the rear notch. Don't try for a perfect front/rear sight alingment....just make sure you aren't shooting over the berm . Shoot a full magazine each time. If you grip fails, or the gun starts to push you around, or you get jams...then you will need to work more on the grip and stance stuff. Your splits should be closer to .15-.25 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Ok I did some more work after a match on Sun. Shooting into the berm I can get .2 splits easy, however I can't see the sights quickly enough to make those happen when shooting. I did a lot of work on the plate rack, pretty consistent mid 5s or so, quickest was 4.8, got the draw down to 1.8 or so consistently. So how can I speed up the draw? How can I see the sights faster in order to speed up slits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Practice. With practice you will start seeing things you never saw before. Steve Anderson said it best: 'Matches are vision contests'. That's paraphrasing, but it sums up what a lot of people don't think about or ever even notice. The next time you fire into the berm, don't worry about the splits, but watch the sights. You will see them. Then turn up the speed, and turn up the vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 What Matt said...practice...and practice with the goal of seeing. I think you have the goal of hitting...which is slightly miss-placed (notice the pun). Look at what you said here: Shooting into the berm I can get .2 splits easy, however I can't see the sights quickly enough to make those happen when shooting. What is the difference? (If you can't figure it out, I'll tell you...but, see if you can get it on your own. Open up your awareness.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 try gripping your gun a little more. not squeezing it to death just a little more and do more bill drills without the draw. If its just the splits your trying to improve. See what happens when you pull the trigger real fast. Just look at your sights. Where are the shots hitting?what are the splits. chances are these are real fast splits. Do not try to get a perfect sight picture. If its too high then wait for the sight to drop a little more. when your hits are all a's then see your splits again. Your targeting .2 splits to get the gm time here. The draw should be a second or less If your right handed remember not to squeeze too much with this hand since you may experience trigger freeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Thanks for the tips guys. Flex I'm not sure I understand what your saying, you said "I think you have the goal of hitting...which is slightly miss-placed (notice the pun)." I guess I'm equating seeing with hitting, ie when I see I can hit, when I go too fast and can't see then I don't hit. I understand I don't need a perfect sight picture, so please explain. I've been able to see more just by firing into the berm and doing bill drills, so I'll do some more of that, I think that might help me see quicker, also got BEs book today so I'll delve into that too. Sent my Glock to Vanek today too, so maybe that will help some:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Shooting into the berm I can get .2 splits easy, however I can't see the sights quickly enough to make those happen when shooting. What's the difference here? My guess is that when you are simply shooting into the berm, you are paying attention to your sights. When you add a target...now what are you paying attention to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 When you add a target...now what are you paying attention to? I try to pay attention to my sights, but I see what your saying, I'll try shooting into the berm and focusing on the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Then, why is there a big difference in the time of the splits (with and without a target)?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Then, why is there a big difference in the time of the splits (with and without a target)?? When I just shoot into the berm I'm not aiming at anything, thus I'm not worried about my sights being aimed at anything in particular, I can just watch them bounce around, I think the reason for the slower splits when I'm actually trying to hit something is that I have to watch the sights, wait for them to come back down from recoil and then adjust slightly so that they are on target. Is that how it should be? I'm not trying to challenge you here just learn:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 RTR, When you just shoot into the berm, you should be trying to become aware of how the sights move, AND where the sights are at the exact moment the shot breaks. Then you should be working on breaking the shots when the sights are actually aligned...so you should still be waiting long enough for the sights to align after each shot, even when shooting into the berm. If I can be permitted to speculate about what Flex is getting at: Hitting the target is something that your index should take care of. Your job is to hit the timing--make the gun fire when the sights are good. The time it takes for your sights to recover after firing shouldn't change because there's a target there--your shots should still make a nice group in the berm. DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Brian just posted (in another thread) what I was leading to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Sent my Glock to Vanek today Are you working the trigger reset on the Glock? This made a huge difference for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Are you working the trigger reset on the Glock? This made a huge difference for me. Ok I got the gun back from Vanek, I put a few mags into the berm after the 2 gun match yesterday, it was really really cold and I was kinda tired too, but I was able to really see the sights well, however the one thing that seemed to slow my splits (they were .5-.7) was that it seemed I had to wait for the trigger to reset, perhaps it was the cold. Anyways I'm interested in what techniques I should use, should I try to memorize if you will the trigger reset distance and let the trigger come back that far (it seems to stick some thus taking extra time to do this) or should I take my finger completely off the trigger and take a full pull each time (I believe this is called slapping). Anyways just curious on trigger control and how it relates to split times, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 In my opinion, the Glock trigger is the easiest trigger to slap because of the distance. You can slap the heck out of it and still have a little time to keep the sights aligned because of the reset distance. Keep practicing, you are on the right track. The cold probably affected your trigger control, I know it does mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 In my opinion, the Glock trigger is the easiest trigger to slap because of the distance. You can slap the heck out of it and still have a little time to keep the sights aligned because of the reset distance. Keep practicing, you are on the right track. The cold probably affected your trigger control, I know it does mine. Thanks for the info Matt, especially helpful since you shoot almost the same gun I do (same trigger), just so I'm clear "slap" refers to letting the trigger fully disengage on each shoot, ie fully removing my finger from contact with the trigger on each shot and then "slapping" it again on the next? Pinning would be keeping my finger on the trigger and feeling it reset then pulling it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 rtr Get a 1911 so you don't have to slap the trigger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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