Varget for two calibers ? 7mm08 & .223

[Boats]

Am going to start loading .223 for Service rifle matches. Now using Varget exclusively for the 7 MM 08 in a bolt Hunter class Silhouette rifle, two bullets 168gr MK for Rams and 140 gr Sierra flat base rest of the course. I shoot a fair amount of Silhouette and am running low on Varget

It's a whole lot simpler get 8 lbs of the same thing. Varget has served me well Think I can run a Service AR with Varget, mostly reduced course 200 yard using 55 gr bulk FMJ's switching to Sierra 69 gr MK's for the occasional full course match ? Am sure it will work but is it ideal for the job.

Boats

[RH45]

I've never found a very accurate load for my .223s with light bullets, and Varget. I use Varget for everything heavier than 60 grain bullets, and 748 for lighter bullets.

[RiggerJJ]

Varget for 62gn and up.

2230 for 62 gn and down.

jj

[Boats]

I used to use 748 for 150 grainers in my 308's and 2520 too. Ought to just buy a jug of some ball powder for the FMJ's and stick with the Varget for 69 gr MK's This gun is a 1/9 and 69's are all it's going to be able to shoot I expect.

Thanks for the tips.

Boats

[RH45]

I used to use 748 for 150 grainers in my 308's and 2520 too. Ought to just buy a jug of some ball powder for the FMJ's and stick with the Varget for 69 gr MK's This gun is a 1/9 and 69's are all it's going to be able to shoot I expect.

Thanks for the tips.

Boats

I have one, 1/9 twist, .223, and it really didn't seem to like Sierra, 69 grain bullets, but, with Hornady 68 grain, or, Nosler 77 grain, it shoots about 3/4" at 100 AND 200 yards, with Varget behind them. After talking to some local benchrest shooters, they seem to think the twist is a tad slow, and the bullet is "asleep" until it goes past 100 yards.

[Boats]

I am pretty sure 1/9 is right on the edge for 69 grainers. You never know until you try one out though. This particular gun was a "deal" and had to take 1/9 along with it. If buying from scratch I would get a faster twist, or limit my bullet to something shorter. You know it's how long not how much they weigh that makes the difference. Some bullets are longer for the same weight than others. I have a cast bullet offhand match rifle that is right on the edge of stability twist wise for 32/40 and it's the best shooter in that caliber I have ever had. Temp gets a little cold velocity drops and it looses some right at the 200 yard target, you can see it in the holes on paper. Add a little powder bump the velocity just a bit and it settles right back down. You don't see this tendency at all 100 yards.

Before I bought this AR off a friend of mine called Sierra who said they have good experience with the 69 gr MK in 1/9 barrels. Will see.

Boats

[gm iprod]

Been lurking about on this awaiting my new rifle.

Remington 700SPS Tactical now in hand. So this gives me an insight directly into your problem. I also have a Remington Model 7 20" Stainless in 7mm-08 and an old OMARK 308 Target rifle. I also happen to have 2lb Varget.

223Rem.

55Grain Sierra Gameking HPBT loaded to 2.180", 5 shot groups, 100M. Federal GM205M, once fired FC brass, full sized.

27.0gr Varget, 3200fps, .9", 23mm, nice to shoot

27.5gr VArget, 3240fps, .9", 23mm, Max load, no nasty pressure signs.

28.0gr Varget, 3275fps, .8", 21mm, nasty pressure signs starting to show.

69gr Sierra Match, Loaded to 2.250",

26.0gr Varget, 2800fps, .6", 15mm,

26.3gr Varget, 2870fps, .5", 13mm. Tidy, first 4 shots touched.

26.5gr Varget, 2910fps, .45", 12mm. Primer starting to just move.

26.7gr Varget, 2950fps, .45", 12mm. Bolt just starting to show signs of tightness, back to 26.5gr.

7mm-08. Data taken from same batch of powder as above but 12months ago.

140gr Nosler Accubond, Loaded to 2.790", 3 shot groups, 100M. Fed 210 Std LR primer. Federal Premium Brass.

43.gr Varget, 2700fps, 1".

43.50 Varget, 2750fps, 1.1" Max load from book. No pressure signs at all.

43.7gr Varget, 2800fps, 2" Primer flatenned out and not good all round.

308. Omark 26" barrel. 155gr Lapua Scenar and or Sierra Palma #2155, Moly coated. Norma Cases, these hold 1gr less powder to the top of the neck that Winchester. All loads compressed. Fed GM210M

47.gr Varget 2870fps, .3".

47.50gr Varget 2910fps, .3", occaisionally going .2"

48.gr Varget 2980fps, .25", one group and one group only went .15", not shot by me damn it all. Pressure signs starting

48.2gr Varget 3010fps, .5", flyers, three will touch one creeps of another goes wild by comparrison. Primers are well flattened.

1:9 is fine with 69gr HPBT from any maker except the Berger VLD, I had a neighbour who had an old 1:10 barrel 223 for those long 55gr Nosler BT, and he found it would shoot Nosler or Sierra 69gr no problem, short barrel too after being rechambered twice. Just had to fill the case up. He used VV540 or 23.5gr Benchmark, BTW that is one nice load.

Varget gave me the fastest load for 308 in that rifle ever. 4895 was a close second. For 165gr Accubond or 168gr Match from anyone, IMR4895 or 748 gave best velocities and VV540 best accuracy. All of which will work well in the 223, 7mm-08 and 308 to some degree.

I just found that my 7mm-08 liked H414 best. Slightly better groups and a little more accuracy. Just lots of black residue in the barrel.

Edited March 15, 2010 by gm iprod

[BradGannaway]

I'd been shooting Varget in both my 55 and 63 grain bullets in .223. The 63s will get 1 MOA at 100 and 200 easily. I could never get the 55s and better than 4MOA.

I started testing out 748 with the 55s, and yesterday, I shot a .82 five round group with 26 grains.

I sighted the AR in to that round (which seems to shoot flatter than the Varget load) and I loaded 200. I'm going to use them in a 3-gun match this weekend and I hope it proves to be a better load than the varget has been with 55gr bullets.

[twodownzero]

How did you get 28 grains of Varget in a .223 case? I can hardly get 27 grains in them to the top of the neck.

[RH45]

How did you get 28 grains of Varget in a .223 case? I can hardly get 27 grains in them to the top of the neck.

It depends on what brand of case you are using. Different brands have different capacity, which is why you need to work up your load whenever you change components.

[twodownzero]

How did you get 28 grains of Varget in a .223 case? I can hardly get 27 grains in them to the top of the neck.

It depends on what brand of case you are using. Different brands have different capacity, which is why you need to work up your load whenever you change components.

I'm aware of that. I've never seen a .223 case that I could ram that much in, though. I always thought Federal had (among) the highest capacity.

Perhaps if you compress it, then trickle some more in, compress it again.....

I've never managed to get enough Varget in a case with 55 grain bullets to see pressure signs. I'm sure it could be done with heavier bullets, but with 55s and under, I just don't see it, given my experience trying to work up in my own rifle.

[gm iprod]

The LC brass I used had been shot maybe 4 times. Full length sized using Dillon Carbide dies. The powder was almost 3/4 of the way up the neck. They shot well, but the primer looked sick and the bolt was getting sticky. All these loads were done with a drop tube to see what I got with pushing it all the way. In the end I have gone to 69gr MK for most of my work except on Deer, then I use the 65gr GK or the 55gr HPBT GK and slot them behind the ear. The 55gr load has been settled on at 27grains as further testing of the 27.5 proved that it was not as good as first thought once we started loading the ammo on the 550. Hand weighed and drop tubed fine. The 27gr (max load in book) falls beautifully through the Dillon Powder Measure so we just left it at that.

I have used R_P brass in the past and they hold about .25gr more than the LC I have. Accuracy was better with LC brass than the R-P.

If you tried using Norma brass for that load about .5gr would spill on the floor.

Again

It depends on what brand of case you are using. Different brands have different capacity, which is why you need to work up your load whenever you change components

[Boats]

I missed this thread and the good replys., Put the AR aside while getting components and parts together. Now ready to get started. Just for starters and function etc bought a couple of boxes of Sierra 55 gr FMJBT's and a jug of H 335. Also bought set of RCBS small base dies. Selected H335 mostly because of it's measuring ablity. Will use some of your loads to work up good offhand 200 yard zeros.

It's going to take me a while to learn to hold this rifle offhand, It's a lot different than my Silouette or Single shot match rifles. Will work on the load and function deveolpment same time as positon building. Take it out to 300 will crank in the 69 gr MK's and probably the Varget. Although Hodgen publishes some loads for H335 and 69 gr bullets. May try H335 with the heavier bullet too. 300 will go prone and see what it's capable of. By then hope to have the trigger working good, it's needs a lot of work.

Boats

[gm iprod]

Boats,

Have to admit that I like the 335 for 55gr and lighter. Meters beautifully through the Dillon. It is essentilly MilSPec powder, slightly slower than 748 and BLC2 so should actually work.

Sierra show a load at 23.9gr with it but they seem to stop about 200fps short of what can be achieved with 748, so keep an eye on pressure. I have found in the past that the moad manuals that show loads that are noticably slower velocities either ran out of space for the mount of powder required to go faster (unlikely with 335) or pressure suddenly went nuts (what I recklon). Hodgdon show less powder than Sierra but more velocity, which seems fair seeing as they use 4" more barrel.

[Boats]

Good tip GM,

Agree with you and the manuals, only way to know for sure is crono yourself. Which I plan to do.

Loading on a Lyman turret press priming with a Lee hand tool and measuring with a Harrells same as my other target rifles. Only concession to the AR so far is small base dies. Match is 80 rounds and 100 ought to see me through the day so don't need progressive production. I am thinking 55's and 69's need completely different components and no sense trying to compromise. Am working on positions and the rapid fire cadence now at 200 yards, 55's are fine for this distance. Be a while before I get to full over the course distance & 69 gr MK's. Probably not going to shoot it in matches until next year, Full slate already with Silhouette this season.

On your drop tube. My 38/55 match rifle will hold a whole lot more 2 F Black powder drop tubed. Amazing how much difference it makes

Boats