New Rules

[BayouSlide]

Cool! So no getting bumped to Open walking up to the line with the mag in the front pocket.

Just get bumped to open stuffing the mag into a front pocket during the "If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear." or "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster" commands. :-)

That certainly wouldn't be my interpretation: the rule is rather clear and you will not "retrieve and use them". You're safe.

Curtis

[mhs]

Cool! So no getting bumped to Open walking up to the line with the mag in the front pocket.

Just get bumped to open stuffing the mag into a front pocket during the "If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear." or "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster" commands. :-)

That certainly wouldn't be my interpretation: the rule is rather clear and you will not "retrieve and use them". You're safe.

Curtis

It's clear that they need to be in a division-compliant location to retrieve and use them without penalty. It's not clear if they need to be in a division-compliant location to carry them. My read would be that they do.

[BayouSlide]

Cool! So no getting bumped to Open walking up to the line with the mag in the front pocket.

Just get bumped to open stuffing the mag into a front pocket during the "If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear." or "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster" commands. :-)

That certainly wouldn't be my interpretation: the rule is rather clear and you will not "retrieve and use them". You're safe.

Curtis

It's clear that they need to be in a division-compliant location to retrieve and use them without penalty. It's not clear if they need to be in a division-compliant location to carry them. My read would be that they do.

5.2.4 During the course of fire after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor’s belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

At If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear you temporarily stow a magazine in a noncompliant pocket, you have no intention using it. Now if you see an unengaged target before showing clear, reload with that mag from the non-permited pocket and engage a target, we would have a penalty. The new wording to me clears up the only likely issue. It would seem to be easy to comply with. No reasonable RO is likely to play gotcha here unless you actually use a magazine for a reload during the COF from a pocket that violates requirements. Your make ready mag is safe no matter where it comes from and I would contend so is the mag removed at ULSC because you will not "retrieve and use" it.

I see your point. But the key words are "retrieve and use them without penalty" as long as they are in a compliant location. If you don't retrieve them and use them, no problem. That's the way I would apply the rule on my stage...anyone feeling they need a trip to Open because a barney mag moved in front of their hipbone could always arbitrate my decision.

As usual, if I'm wrong in my reading, plenty of NROI instructions will straighten us out before too long.

Curtis

Edited March 16, 2010 by BayouSlide

[Doug S]

Mike,

I meant unfamiliar, as an RO not regularly encountered by us from the Mid-Atlantic Section --- not to suggest that there was anything wrong with the call. I'm certain you weren't happy to spot the tape, or to make the referral......

I'd imagine the changes will be effective the moment they're posted --- since the effective date on them is apparently March 1, 2010, unless that changes by the time they're posted...

Nik,

Feel fotunate that Mike is an "unfamiliar" to you, we shoot with him ALL the time! Mike is the one that keeps us on the straight and narrow. Thanks Mike!

[Gary Stevens]

It was determined that the problem was a result of a "cut and paste" error when forumulating the revised rule.

Therefore it was corrected before posting to the USPSA webpage.

There were a couple of other typo errors corrected in other rules also.

Gary

[Nik Habicht]

Mike,

I meant unfamiliar, as an RO not regularly encountered by us from the Mid-Atlantic Section --- not to suggest that there was anything wrong with the call. I'm certain you weren't happy to spot the tape, or to make the referral......

I'd imagine the changes will be effective the moment they're posted --- since the effective date on them is apparently March 1, 2010, unless that changes by the time they're posted...

Nik,

Feel fotunate that Mike is an "unfamiliar" to you, we shoot with him ALL the time! Mike is the one that keeps us on the straight and narrow. Thanks Mike!

I've run into Mike at a number of matches -- not enough of them unfortunately....

[Morphire]

I think bashing the guys involved is bad form. Especially volunteers who are giving their time to try and make our sport better. Having said that, I do like the way they handled the production updates last year. I'm not sure how much the rules changed from the original version to the final release, but I'm sure the rules makers received helpful feedback by showing them to the general public before making them official.

Keep in mind that the Production Rules changes of last year were not published for review and request by the gen pop. They were just listing what was going to be put into effect. The rules had already been finalized and the only thing left was a waiting period before they were implemented. It was simply a warning to get your equipment squared so that on the day it was implemented, you wouldn't be illegal.