Sizing Die Adjustment

[D.Hayden]

I finally got around to getting a set of Dillon 'Case Gage's - really getting ready for a 40 SVI that I heard were a little more picky - but I got a 45 (& a 9mm) as well - my loads on a 550 with Dillon dies - seem to shoot fine - but Saturday I went through and gauged 400 rounds to use Sunday - probably 100 didn't gauge -

What an eye opener

Many, case too long - I could hear the shoulder hit

But about 75 wouldn't fit - so I'm guessing 2 things:

My question: Is my Sizing die misadjusted or the Dillon die doesn't resize enough?

I'm guessing the former, but was wiondering if this is what the 'Glock' brass symptom is, - and should I get a Lee Undersized die for the 45 as well.

This was 'buy a bucket' brass - all different headstamps (threw out all the AMERC)

About 25 of these, sat up over 1/8" - 3/16" outside the guage - the rest probably could've been pushed in - but I didn't try

[George]

Sounds like bulges in the case near the base. Size a couple cases but don't prime charge or load bullets in them. Then drop these into the case gauge. If they gravity drop in and the head is flush with the end of the gauge and they gravity drop out, then the sizing die is set fine. If the size die is OK, then flare a properly sized case mouth by charging it, dump the powder and seat a bullet and then crimp it. If this dummy round doesn't drop all the way in, then you have a case mouth problem and the crimp needs to be adjusted.

If the sized cases did not gravity drop into the gauge fully then check that the size die is set properly. Back the die out a little, run the shell plate all the way up and then screw the die in until it contacts the shell plate, then back it out until it just doesn't contact the shell plate (you don't want carbide dies bottoming out). Make sure the cases are lubed too, this will help the sizing operation (Hornady One Shot). If this setting doesn't size the cases until they drop into the gauge fully then you should look at one of the U dies for sizing, or the Lee Factory Crimp die, or both.

Regards,

[D.Hayden]

George, thanks for all the tips - I didn't even dawn on me to break it down like that - still trying to get the hang of reloading..

[TBF]

Many, case too long - I could hear the shoulder hit

Berkim,

Good advice above.

But, no sizing die will cure brass that is too long. Check the length after sizing and compare to max case length. 45acp is .898 .

I have rarely run into this problem in 45acp.

You could trim them if they are in good condition, if not I'd pitch the long ones, too much trouble for anything but really nice brass. IMHO, but I hate trimming brass.

Travis F.

[George]

no sizing die will cure brass that is too long

Good point. If the sized case gravity drops into the gauge with the mouth of the case fully against the gauge shoulder and you still have case sticking up out of the gauge, then that piece of brass is just plain too long. I have rarely (if ever) seen pistol brass that is so long that it actually sticks up out of an ammo drop gauge, but if this is the case (every pun intended), I would just chuck the too long brass out (as mentioned earlier). Trimming pistol brass is mostly a waste of time.

BTW, consider getting brass of one headstamp type. This goes a long way towards eliminating problems like this and will also make your press cycle smoother and more consistently.

Regards,

[D.Hayden]

George:

All the cases I sized, dropped fine, after the crip, they all seated fine, so maybe it's when I speed up - I'll have to do some spot checks as I'm loading, see what's wrong - I'll try again on Saturday

The Crimp is set to .471, my book says .473 - that seems ok

TBF -

I agree completely. I have a Forester trimmer, but pistol brass is too cheap to bother.

But maybe I'm doing this wrong - I was thinking the case gage was a no-brainer -

But I just dropped it in, I'm expecting the case to come up flush with the top of the gage. But, the cases are stopping about at the rim - with a metallic click - if I turn the case (just to check) 180', the rear fits through so I don't think it's hitting the rim.

But measuring these cases I get .886 - .890 - so they're well within spec - I must be hearing something else, like the case hitting somewhere? It's just so sharp, I figured it as the length - unfortunaelty I can't see the case inside the gage.

I'll have to try some chalk, see where it rubs to try to narrow those down -

Thanks to you both for the help, Dave

[D.Hayden]

I had started that post and was writing down as I was trying things -

The lenght I'm putting down to operator error - until I can figure out what's hitting

I ordered a bucket of Federal brass this time, mostly to get rid of the brass (CBC, AMERC) I didn't want - all this mixed stuff will go to practice only.

[EricW]

I used to worry about "long" pistol brass. I don't anymore. Pistol brass, unlike rifle brass, gets shorter as you shoot it......so....as long as it chambers, there's no reason to worry about trimming or sorting out "long" cases.

[Gun Geek]

BerKim:

You are supposed to hear that clunk when a properly sized round drops into a case gauge. You'll hear it in a gun chamber, too. If you get the clunk and the base is between the 2 levels on the gauge, the case is the right length. Too high or too low and it's out of spec.

The sound is caused by the rim of the case hitting the chamber shoulder so that headspace is right. If the round drops in freely and you don't hear that clunk check the crimp. It is possible that you have OVER crimped the neck and the round is going too far into the throat. It is also likely that case will not easily drop back out. Look for the brass at the case mouth the be shiny and the case smashed into the bullet.

This is not theory for me, I've done it. When I started reloading I thought if some crimp is good, more is better, right?

Thechnically overcrimping (and fouling up headspace should cause ignition problems, but the reality is that in most 1911 style guns the extractor holds the case back against slide face firmly enough for the firing pin to reliably ignite the primer.

I did a chamber cast of my Kimbers with the barrel and slide in battery and I found that the distance from the shoulder in the chamber to the slide face was about 0.020 LONGER than the spec'd maximum length of a 45 ACP case. I haven't yet done this on Glocks or my Beretta, but I imagine there will be simiilar results. This is why we don't have to worry too much about cases groing too long like the rifle guys do.

Geek

[Run n Gun]

Dave,

I ran across a couple of 45 bulged cases that that not only wouldn’t chamber fully actually WEDGED so tightly that I had a heck of a time getting them back OUT. One was when I running some reloaded ammo through my carry gun but the other was in a match and it cost me a stage. I ordered a case gauge.

Sorting through my loaded ammo I was appalled to see that 8-9% of my rounds wouldn’t go completely in the gauge all the way and some REALLY didn’t want to go, I dutifully set all these aside. The next trip to the range I loaded up the marginal ammo and to my surprise it ran perfectly and even the really bad stuff could be coaxed in to working (I chucked those cases).

So now, while I still “gauge” every round, I don’t get excited about the ones that stick up a little bit, they’ll run. The ones I keep my eye out for are the rounds that there is obviously something severely wrong.

FWIW I use all one head stamp (mostly) every time I get a bunch of “strange” stuff mixed in I seem to have more problems.

Lots of good advice George (as usual) (Travis too!), I KNEW everything you said but seeing it written out step-by-step helps a lot.

Ed

[D.Hayden]

Ed,

thanks again as always - I'm going to start doing exactly what you're talking about - I git this case gage after loading 4,000 and firing ~3,500 - My newer Kimber has had some problems, maybe it's picker than my old one (old meaning June '03). BTW - I'm moving back toward the FO front sight - I'm having real problems wacthing the front sight lift - I think the color will help aquire it - If not I can always switch back

GG:

- Are you using a Dillon gage? In the instructions it looks like the rifle has 2 levels, but my pistols ones don't really have levels - just flush with the end. But these ones that 'clunk' stick up, although the case is the right length. The chalk might help. Just can't tell what/where they're making contact yet.

[Jasonub]

I use the egw sizing die and dillon case guage for the 40. Out of 300 rounds, 2-3 wont gauge. Just pull these bullets and run them 2x in the egw sizing die rotating it 180 degrees after 1 resize and it can be used again

[Merlin Orr]

Jason - you get 2-3 with once fired brass? The ones that don't gauge will after rotation and resize - why? You figure these 2 or 3 might be Glock fired brass?

I just followed a link from an Eric W post to EGW and could not find where EGW advertises selling the U Dies. I cleaned a bunch of newly purchased once fired .40 brass today and a lot of em have visible guppybumps on them. After saying in another thread a day or two ago I did not gauge I am ordering both U dies and gauges tommorow.

[D.Hayden]

MerlinD:

http://www.egw-guns.com/parts/parts_dies.htm

off this link:

http://www.egw-guns.com/parts/parts_fr.htm

[Merlin Orr]

Well DUHHH. I guess I looked right by it - several times....

Thanks BerKim.