JMD Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 The mag issue will not go away or migrate to another topic! There is a man who makes 19 round .40 mags in the Philippines for S__ and they work. It is claimed that a man produces a 20 round .40 in Brazil that fits the box, but will not sell to anyone but Brazilians. Just a couple of data points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Well, let's go to Brazil and string him up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Actually, the guy in Brazil makes a 19 rnd S_I mag. I would have to see it before I believe that someone can make a 20 rnd mag. It would be impressive! To make 18 rnd SVI mags. just look at some previous post made by Skywalker. He has actually done more work than I. All I use is a Wolff spring with 11 coils, a SV comp. follower and a +1 pad. With those piss poor SPS mag bodies you can get 19! But reliability might or will suffer. Vince, the only reason I bothered to write “på norsk” was because I felt pretty sure that you would figure it out, otherwise it would have been a waste, right? BTW, I speak as much French as the people working at the McDonalds in Cavallion (France), speaks English, absolutely zero! Hope those of you who wants to, make it to WSXIV. I'll be there. even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMD Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 The 20 rounder is impressive. I counted the rounds and measured it. It appears to be created from scratch but I am no expert... but can count to 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 A good friend of mine shoots for the Brazilian Team, and the 19 round mags are incredible and incredibly expensive. They're easily reloadable, too. As far as a 20 rounder......I'd have to see (and count) that with my own eyes, and I still probably wouldn't risk using it! Now, if I could just get him to make me a 21 rounder for US rules! Phil - 17 rounder - Strader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Hi Julian, sorry Flex, forgive my anarchic tendancies, but if you put the mag tube in a caliper, base level on the bar, the highest point will be 126mm on a mag that fits the box, not like the measurement you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 You guys should start considering a Para frame for IPSC. I can get a reloadable/reliable 19 in mine easy. And that's with a mec-gar tube + custom basepad with the factory spring and (re-shaped) follower. The total cost of the mag is less than $40, hard-chromed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 A friend of mine bought four brazilian 19 rds mags at the end of the world shoot. He's now importing them in France but the price is 200 euros, which would mean around 240 dollars for 1 mag ! They work well, and I'm curious to see 20 rounders, where the hell do they put that damn' 20th round ? Phil: So if you measure the tube like shown on the picture, it should be shorter. Maybe around 120 mm more or less . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 mco said what I was about to say: I have no idea what you are arguing about; my Para Std Div mags fit 20rds to start with, and 19 rds to reload with... --D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Ok here is the verdict. I bought 3 mags from speedshooter.com. @ 124 mm and 1 126 mm mag for ipsc rules since thats what we have here in the Philippines. The 124s fit the box with the plus 1 basepad. and holds 17 rounds reloadable I am using grams springs cut 1 coil and sv red followers. I bought the 126 to get 18 rounds, I used the same plus 1 pad and same spring and follower on the 126 mag. It held 19 rounds!!! No reloadable so you should use it for the first mag. Then I slammed it home in my sv and tried to fit it to a 150mm box. It did not fit. In fact, with the 124 mm tubes with the plus 1 basepad fit in the box but there is a very slight space that i can experiment with. Ill have to cut my 126 so it will fit inside the box with the plus 1 basepad. (this i am sure will fit 18 rounds reloadable) I can also fit 18 rounds in my 124 mm sv mag tube if the grams coils are cut to 10 but this might not work in a match thus i did not use it. It hell to load the 18th round in the tube. Just like skywalker was referring to/. It wont work if you change mag with 18 in the tube. ALso when you slam home the 124 mm mag in my blaster its flush in my magwell with the plus 1 basepad, with the 126 it was potruding noticably. Almost like m y 140 mm mag. As for using para type frames, I went to that early in my shooting. The problem was I have seen and heard and experienced broken frames in para type guns for my taste. I just want my gun to last my lifetime of shooting major and svi seems to make very good frames. In the phils the Para/armscor frames outnumber s_i frames 50 to 1 in the standard division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 mco said what I was about to say: I have no idea what you are arguing about; my Para Std Div mags fit 20rds to start with, and 19 rds to reload with... --D. Dang Detlef! You willing to share that 20th round secret? In the phils the Para/armscor frames outnumber s_i frames 50 to 1 in the standard division. Dude, more like 100 to 1. SVI/STI are priced way too much for us ordinary working folks. It'll probably take me 3 years out of my lunch money to be able to afford one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Detlef, mco, I think you/we are debating different issues: according to IPSC rulebook (Standard Division), the gun in ready condition with empty mag inserted shall fit the box, thus no mags longer than 126 mm will ever fit the box. According to USPSA, mags of 140 mm maximum can be used, thus you are able (in the U.S.A.) to achieve that astounding capacity of 20/21 rounds I have read in this forum. In any case, I doubt more than 18/19 rounds can be stuffed into an IPSC compliant Standard Division mag (at least an S_I, which is more tapered than a Para one). OTOH, I'll be more than happy to learn I'm wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Sky: It's possible to put 19 rds in Para type mags. When I was shooting with the BUL M5, the mags fitted with an arredondo +1 follower and a SPS base pad accepted 19 rds. One more in the chamber and you got the 20s . Even would say the same things as his shooting buddies hans roger and steinar use them and load 19s. This is the only thing I regret about those pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 the mags fitted with an arredondo +1 follower and a SPS base pad accepted 19 rds. One more in the chamber and you got the 20s . Yeah, I think this is the maximum capacity for IPSC box legal mags. But to achieve 20/21 rounds you have to use 140 mm USPSA legal mags. BTW, yesterday I checked again with my mag setup: 18 is the very upper limit, one more round would fit into the tube, but then there is really no more room for the spring (and we need it too ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 or shoot your gun upside down so you wont need the spring anymore . BTW sky, how many coils do you have on your setup and what brand springs? Did you trim the sv red followers or are they stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 With the 18 round mags...and the IPSC 9-shot from a postion...do you often run the gun dry? Do you keep your slide-locks functional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Flex, with my setup, the slide lock tab is already grinded off. I noticed with the thinned followers, even with a single round in the mag, it's already very high up in the tube that it would already be pushing the slide lock tab. Besides, my followers tend to hang up in the tube if I don't radically radius off the notch that's suppose to activate the slide lock tab. With regards to COF designs back here, I noticed that most stages give you "more than 9-shot options." But these options usually require you to shoot at longer distances or be at a very awkward position. We also have lots of movements for field courses w/c are usually more than enough to cover for a reload. BTW, this box rule thing, my gun will fit the box IF the bomars are flush in the slide. But since it's adjusted a tad bit up, fitting the gun in the box will require it to be pushed down. Do the rules cover this? Or does it require all your gun parts to be in their "normal shooting position"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 For Para 16 40 Bull m5 mag tube Arrodondo spring and follower RHT +1 shoe This setup holds 19 rounds so you start with 20 and it fits the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Jasonub, I use standard untrimmed SVI springs (10 coils), and SVI competition followers slimmed (see here for pics). Flex, the first mod I added to my SVI was grinding the slide stop tab on the followers, because I feel I don't need the slide to lock open after the last shot: when I plan my reloads, I know how many spare rounds I have (I mean I plan to shoot 14 before reload, this gives me 4 spares for make-ups), and, while shooting, I keep track of how many make-ups I shoot to decide it's time for a reload before the planned one. Besides, my SVI had the bad tendency to lock prematurely open with a round still in the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 I didn't grind off the slide stop but I did on the followers. Sometimes, stage design allows very small room for a reload, unless you can reload in a blink of an eye , which is not my case Here in France, stage design often count 17 or 18 rds on medium courses and very close shooting positions. So we are always trying to found that extra round that can make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Thanks sky. I noticed that your mags are the same sold by speedshooter as 124 mm mags. On the link you gave, the second set of pics by Julien boit are the 126 mags that are sold by speed shooter. I have 3x 124 mags and 1 x126 mag tubes bought from speedshooter. The latter mag will not fit in the box in the front end thus Julien cut the forward section in the bottom so it will fit. Its ugly but still retains 18 rounds. Im still thinking if ill do it the way julien did it or cut the tube so it will be shaped like the 124 mags. I found out that with the grams spring cut just 1 coil 12.5-1 is 11.5 and it can only fit 17. With your setup 10 coils it fit 18. Ill cut one of my mag springs to 10 coils and see what happens. Thanks. Flex, My slide will never slide open since there is too much shock buffs to allow it to With the 9 round courses I usually will only shoot 9 rounds unless I miss a plate or popper then I shoot 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Jason : If you're interested in the process to make a 126mm "box friendly", let me know, I'll take a couple of pics and I'll explain all the things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 mco, no secret. Para, over the years, made .40 mags of varying total length. One of mine is a bit longer than the others. Combined with Arredondo follower (next to last generation, the new ones get stuck...), 10 or 11 coil Grams spring and hollow aluminum base pad of unknown origin (owned them for many years, long before the IPSC box existed...), it holds 20 rds IPSC (22 rds USPSA). The others hold 19/21. For USPSA, I use 12.5 coil springs and Dawson's or Grams base pads. Magazine bodies are polished on inside and beveled at bottom. For IPSC, there's even space left at the bottom of the box, so 20 rd mags suitable for reloading (mine is only a starter...) "should" be feasible. Yes, the S_Is are the better made frames, but i) Para is what I have and no money to burn and ii) the mag capacity issue always makes me smile.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 I plan to work on modified STI/para mags to see if something can be done with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Hi Julien, do discuss the way you fixed your 126 to fit the ipsc box. Thanks, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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