Waldog

My wife shoots a 9mm M&P with small pink grip in IDPA. She won't shoot anything else. My daughter shoots a 9mm 1911 (Springfield), with SlimGrips in IDPA. She won't shoot anything else

Which is Better? What’s best? This question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on the Dillon SDB, 550, 650, 1050 and the Hornady LNL. I currently own a Hornady LNL and a Dillon SDB. Here is my perspective: The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. Dillon presses are EXCEPTIONAL and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady LNL is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the LNL and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the LNL and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the LNL. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. I can also unequivocally state, based on my experience, that HORNADY has equal customer service. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!! IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It is sliding bar type measure. It meters ball type powder well but, flake type powder less so. Extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures, irregardless of design. Be advised that flake powder has been known to “leak” around the Dillon sliding bar as it is activated back and forth. Particularly if the sliding bar is worn. The LNL powder measure is a rotary barrel design that handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. A rotary barrel is the same design used by RCBS, Sinclair and other manufacturers. I have never heard of a rotary type measure “leak”. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. I have never heard of a LNL owner that has more than one powder measure. There is no need. It is easy to adjust. Many LNL owners, myself included, own several "Powder Dies" that are pre-adjusted to load a specific case. (Note: Powder measure fits into the Powder Die.) Each LNL powder die costs about $20. A Dillon powder measure costs $75. Also, IMHO, the Dillon de-priming/priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON de-priming system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. With the Hornady LNL, spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although, I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder. Please note that neither Dillon or LNL primer systems will work flawlessly unless they are adjusted properly. Users of BOTH users systems have expressed exasperation with these adjustments. If you want a “Powder Check” system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and Dillon 550 both have 4 die stations. The LNL and Dillon 650 both have 5 stations. However, the 650 costs significantly more than the LNL. The Dillon 1050 in really an industrial machine and has about 7 or eight stations. How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!), many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. However, with a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady LNL, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550, is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto. In addition, the LNL auto indexing is significantly smoother than the Dillon 650. The LNL indexes 1/2 step while the ram is going up and 1/2 step when the ram goes down. The 650 indexes a full step on the ram down stroke and can cause pistol cases to spill SMALL AMOUNTS or powder with the indexing "bump". IMHO, the LNL is dramatically better. Of course, the amount of powder "bumped" from a case is dependent on the powder charge, operator and, speed of reloading. As I stated above, you get primer problems with a dirty press. "Bumped" powder fouls BOTH Dillon and LNL. Next, the LNL uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies and powder measure to the press. It makes changing calibers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate that has the powder measure and all loading dies installed. The Dillon die plate costs more than LNL bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the LNL! Additionally, the LNL seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rock Chucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the LNL is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the LNL is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the LNL would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case. There is one piece that can get damaged on the LNL. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon, you have to remove brass pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate. My fingers require needle-nose pliers or forceps to remove the brass pins. (For the next discussion keep in mind that BOTH DILLON AND LNL shell plates rotate CLOCKWISE.) Another item to think about. For NON-CASE FEEDER users; all Dillon presses (Except 1050) require you to use BOTH hands to insert brass and bullets on the press. The Dillon 650, 550 and, SDB operates as follows; 1) Right hand inserts an empty case at the right, front side of the press. 2) Left hand then sets the bullet on the case mouth at the left, rear side of the press. 3) Right hand then activates the operating handle. 3b)For Dillon 550 only, Left hand manually rotates shell plate. 4) You then release the operating handle and insert another case with your right hand and so forth. (Right, left, right, right, left, right,right) (Note: With the Dillon 550 you also have to manually rotate the shell plate at step 3b. Most people do this with their LEFT hand.) With the Dillon, “right-left-right-left” hand operating procedure, clockwise rotation and, the fact that you start your loading process at the front, right side of the press, your bullet seating die is at the rear, left side of the press. Why is this important? The Dillon powder measure drops powder into the case and the case is rotated clockwise to the REAR of the press to the bullet seating die. It is very difficult to see inside of the case to see the gunpowder. Many Dillon owners rig up flashlight, mirror or, believe it or not, a video camera to “look” into the case to see the powder charge. With the LNL you start your loading process at the REAR, left side of the press. As your case rotates clockwise, after the powder is dropped, your case is directly in the front of the press and the bullet is seated directly in front of the person operating the press. Is is VERY EASY to look directly into the case to see the powder charge. Even though I use a “Powder Check” die. I look directly into each case as I am loading. I have never had a squib load OR a double charge. This is not to say that it can’t happen. It can. I just haven’t experienced one. Loading cases and bullets with the left hand is very natural to me. Others may really dislike this feature and prefer the right/left/right/left/right operation of Dillon. Please note that a case feeder eliminates this operation and both Dillon and LNL only load bullets on the left side of the press. Dillon at the back of the press and LNL at the front of the press. You can load anything on both the Dillon and LNL from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the LNL, I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone. In summary, the Hornady LNL has all the features of the Dillon 650 but, is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper that the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the LNL is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the LNL and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my LNL and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

It's a Hollywood press. A turret press if I remember correctly. I think they were made thru the 1960's. I have never used one.

Loosen the shroud tube that goes over the primer tube about 1/4 turn. Just enough so that there is a little wiggle room. This allows a little "play" in the system and your primers should stop hanging up.

Powder funnel is great. Works with pistol OR rifle cases, .30-.50 caliber

Once you have a case feeder, you'll find you shoot more because you have more ammo available. At least that's what happened to me!! Do yourself a favor and order a Hornady Case feeder($252+ a shell plate). These guys are the cheapest by far: http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Hornady-095300-Case-Feeder-Lock-N-Load.html

I have not heard of anyone complaining about poor quality control with any of Hornady's products. I have a LNL that is about 3 1/2 years old. I installed the new EZ-ject system when it became available. I have helped 3 other people with their LNL and I did not see any QA problems. The LNL is manufactured in Grand Island, Nebr. Call them and ask. If you ever find a QA problem, Hornady is exactly like Dillon, they will make it right at no cost. I have used Dillon products and they load as advertised. I own the LNL because, based on my experience with both, I prefer the operation of the LNL. Swapping from small to large primers takes about 2 minutes. Very easy to do. That is the beauty of the LNL system. You can swap out cartridges in 5 minutes or less. You won't see a LNL owner with for or five powder measures like you do with Dillon. It's easy to set up and adjust and overall is a better measure. At least in my opinion.

Brian's store sells the 550 Dillon case feeder for $244.95. Man Venture Outpost, http://www.manventureoutpost.com/, sells the Hornady case feeder for $252.20 PLUS an additional $23.76 for a shell feed plate. That's a total of $275.76. Using my math skills; Let's see, $275.76 minus $244.95 equals $30.81 Yep, the Hornady case feeder IS $30.81 MORE than the Dillon. That's a LONG way from being "double the price of a Dillon". So I guess we are both wrong. My $50-60 estimate is too high and your "Double the price" estimate would seem to be a little high as well. Also, The 550 case feeder ONLY WORKS WITH SMALL PISTOL AND LARGE PISTOL CASES. The Hornady feeds all pistol and rifle cases, both large and small. Of course you have to buy the appropriate case plate, just like you would with a Dillon Mr. WRONGO!!

"The LNL is less expensive than the dillon for caliber converstion. I started with the LNL then added two XL650's to the bench. I still load all of my smaller batches of ammo on the LNL. The Dillons get the big and continuious batches 2000 or more. The LNL is less expensive without the case feeder but about the same as the XL650 with the case feeder. I consider that they are equals with the LNL having a better powder measure and less parts to break and either company stands behind the product and sends free parts." Hard to believe!! An honest Dillon owner!!

The Hornady case feeder costs twice what the Dillon does, and the Dillon is bit more refined, so I'd probably just hit the whole deal if going Dillon. There is no way I'd buy a new Dillon press from anyone other than Brian Enos. WRONGO! Hornady case feeder is about $50-$60 more than Dillon 550/650. They both operate on the same principle. Both work as advertised, Both feed cases.

You may find this website a little more informative on your Blue verses Red quest. It's worth a look. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318270

We have two Springfield "Target" 9mm's. My daughter and I shoot IDPA ESP class. She has 1000 rounds through hers with 124gr lead handloads. She has NEVER EXPERIENCED a malfunction of any kind. It has exhibited PERFECT reliability with both round nose and flat point lead bullets. I have about 1800 rounds through mine with 124gr Montana Gold HP's. I have had about 3-4 slide failures to go to battery that turned out to be ammo related with S&B and Amerc brass. With a machine rest at 25yards, mine shoots 1 3/4" at 1080 FPS all day. Haven't checked my daughter's gun in a machine rest. We have used Wilson ETM and SA's magazines and reliability has been perfect. Both us us agree that these 9mm 1911's are our favorite pistols. Everyone that has shot ours, "Want one!!" Reliability may have been an issue in the past, however these 9mm's have full ramped barrels and good magazines. Reliability is not an issue with our Springfields, We love em'!!!!

Ditto on the POWDER FUNNEL. I love mine. I have separate Powder Dies for each handgun caliber. I can swap out calibers on the LNL in about 2 minutes.

benos It's your forum. Why don't you take the 'Non-Dillon Reloading Equipment" Thread off the your web. Since "...serious competitors and pros usually use the best equipment". All of us Non-Dillon users are just a bunch of amateur wanna' be's we are obviously wasting your band-width.

earlbob, Thanks! I understand now. Dillon owners are "narrow minded" and Hornady owners are just "stupid". JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING. Of course Dillon dominates. They primarily make reloading equipment and have superb marketing. Hornady, on the other hand, concentrates it's marketing on their bullets and ammunition. Their reloading equipment is just one small facet of the company. lugnut said it best, Sorry earlbob, I've used blue press and the red press. I like the red press better. Wait!! That makes me stupid, right? LOL

I have posted this on other websites. But, it is usually well received. These are OPINIONS based on 45 years reloading. Please, Dillon owners, NO DEATH THREATS!! Your question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on both. Here is my perspective: Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon. The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. The Dillon's are EXCEPTIONAL presses and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!! IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. Also, IMHO, the Dillon priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON primer system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. The Hornady L-N-L spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder. If you want a powder check system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and 550 has 4 die stations. The L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations, but costs significantly more. And, the Dillon 1050 has about 7 or eight. How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!). Many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. With a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady L-N-L, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550 is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto. Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calipers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L! Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case. There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate. You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone. In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper that the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

Now for your 9mm to feed properly I have outstanding luck with Wilson's 10 round ETM mags and MetalForm 9 round mags

The EGW four hole gage is for 4 different cases; 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, 45 ACP. One gage, four cases!! I love mine.

Don't overlook HP-38/Win 231 for the 9mm and 40. I have shot at least 20 pounds of the stuff.

I shoot 124 gr Montana Gold hp's AND lead 125 gr, round nose. BOTH are loaded with 4.2 grs of HP-38/Win231. BOTH shoot under 2 inches from a Ransom Rest at 25 yards in my S&W M&P 9mm's (I have 2). I also want to try Power Pistol and AutoComp. I have test loads but have not had the time to set up the Ransom and shoot.

OK, makes sense. Specially chambered barrels that have compensators. Still seems like an incredibly hot load. I just have production guns, I'll stick with loads that are much lighter. Thanks for the explanation.

I did a search on this forum about 9mm loads with Win AutoComp powder. There are guys using from. 7.0 to 7.9 gr of AutoComp with 121 MG bullets. The Hogdon/Win load data website clearly show a MAX load of 5.2 gr of AutoComp with a 125gr SIE bullets and a MAX charge of 6.5 gr with a 90 gr bullet. What gives? 7.0 to 7.9 is over 20% above MAX for a similar bullet according the the loading data. I know that AutoComp is new and really hasn't been scrutinized that much. Where are these guys getting their loading data? Or are they just overloading until the rupture a case or blow a primer and then back off .2gr?

My LNL won't feed primers very well if the shroud around the primer tube is screwed in TIGHT. Loosen the shroud 1/2 turn and see if that helps.

As some of the previous posts mentioned, the powder thru expanders are hard to adjust to work properly. THEY DO WORK! However, if you have only one powder die and are switching from a short 9mm to a 44 mag, adjusting the expanders for proper case bell is a pain. I bought this little jewel: http://www.powderfunnels.com/ and my case adjusting days are MUCH easier. I must confess, I purchased several powder dies (about $17 each). Each pistol case I load has its own dedicated, adjusted powder die. Swapping calibers now takes about 5 minutes. Check it out!! http://www.powderfunnels.com/

Something else to think about. I especially like to read about reloaders "KABOOMS". Every single KABOOM I have read about over the last 3-4 years was traced back to a manually indexing progressive loading press. Before I bought my AP press I loaded shotgun shells on two MEC 9000 loaders. They are auto-indexing. It seemed un-natural to buy a manually progressive press. I purchase an auto-indexing press instead. I won't say it is impossible to get a double charge with an auto-indexing press but, I do feel it reduces the likelihood dramatically. HOWEVER, a double charge with a manual-index press is certainly not the fault of the press. It is operator error, pure and simple. Each of the KABOOMS I read about, the loader was distracted by something i.e., phone, wife, kids, cat, dog, doorbell, FEDEX. You get the idea! Again, manually-indexing presses aren't bad. They just need a little more concentration in the loading process. At least that's my thought process.