Sean_ht

It is just a blind claim. I would like to hear the reasoning for this claim.

If the goal is to gain an A or higher classification, yes it is needed to shoot A-zone. Major does make more recoil. It is a fact. You can't say 1.2 is not larger than 1. What you said is like someone say I should not get a ticket for DUI, because I didn't feel that I was drunk. Major on average is about 25%-50% more expensive than minor, depending on the cal of major. I agree, being cheaper vs "lot" cheaper is subjective, but it is still cheaper.

Considering the goal be to become an A or higher -level shooter, it is required to land all shots in the A-zone in the classifier stages. So why bother shooting major in the divisions in which both the minor and the major are allowed? Perhaps some can argue shooting minor creates less recoil, so better control and faster second shot, much cheaper than shooting a major cal., and as a bonus one or more extra rounds in magazine. The only downside of minor is the scoring of 1 point less in C-zone compare with the major. Yes, it does effect the overall ranking in a match, but not the classifier (assuming the goal is to gain HF that qualifies for A/G/GM). I am basically trying to understand the justification for shooting 40SW/45 in limited or SS division, and 38-supper/9-major in open-division. For the open, I know the 9-major has an edge over minor because of the effectiveness of the comp. However, I have tried both 9- major and minor in an open handgun, and the difference was negligible. Basically comp. helps to manage the recoil in two different ways, the extra gas pressure of 9-major makes the comp. to be effective, and for 9-minor, the comp. acts as an extra weight in the end of the muzzle.

I have the exact same setup, MPX with MRO. I zero at 20 yard. It covers any distance between 10 and 30 yards. For a close range target, either I aim at the top of the A-zone (body), or top of the cardboard for the head-shot's A-zone (there is 1" gap between the top of the cardboard and top of the A-zone). As for a long range shooting, it completely depends on your ammo. You need to calculate the trajectory for your choice of ammo, and memorize the drop at the reference distances (100, 150, 200, ...). I am right now thinking about adding a 45-degree red-dot for a close range shots. Not yet convinced that it really has any advantage over the single red-dot system & simply remember the hold-overs for the close-range shots. Saying that, it is more about the aesthetic than practicality.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have decided to buy the M3K Freedom. The totality of responds suggest inertia system is more reliable at the lower price range. A reliable gas driven system bumps up the price range. I have shot with the M3K Freedom, Beretta 1301 comp and comp pro, and Benelli M2 and M4. - M3K is nice, good weight balance, ready for competition out of the box. Very similar to M2, but it feels a bit cheap (material). - M2 is very nice, and well built shotgun. However, considering the similarity between M2 and M3K, I prefer the N3K for it's cheaper price tag. At the end of the day, I need to drop it into a plastic drum, and i am totally fine with putting some scratches on it. - M4 is supper nice, but it gives me an impression that it is not made for competition. Rather, it is more of a tactical system. - 1301 is a good shotgun, but it is too light. Didn't like it. On the other hand, the comp pro is very very nice shotgun. It is my favorite! It is by far the best among all of the shotguns I have had experience shooting with.

Now I get it. I hate 40, and I rarely shoot my limited gun. Guess what, it is a 40cal pistol!

If I decide to shoot reload ammo, it will be definitely my own reloads. Other than factory ammo, I don't trust anyone's reload. You know better than me, reloading is a supper boring process, but a minor mistake can lead to a catastrophic consequence. The saving of reload vs factory for any caliber above 9mm, including 9-major, is substantial. 40 is a bit tricky, the brass and bullet are not cheap.

Thanks, my higher bound ($0.13) includes brass and lower bound excludes it. It is a bit conservative. Perhaps with a bit squeeze, as you expressed, I can reach the $0.1/round mark. I seriously was about to buy the equipment, but two of my friends (one GM, and one A level), convinced me to change my mind, and wait till the end of the year. Basically they both told me that I will eventually do the reload, but until I reach my M level, it just brings more distraction rather than helping my progress. Saying that, one of my other friends (also a GM) had put the idea of buying the reloading stuffs in the first place. I think waiting a year or less, does not hurt much. Based on my estimate for the ammo count I will shoot this year, the saving I could have is about $1k if I would have bought the reloading equipment (excluding the investment cost). On the other hand, the time I will save will be contributed to training (dryfire/technique), which I really need to focus on at this point.

Thanks, all great points. Even the aspect of shooting more by reloading ammo, because it is cheaper, IMHO is not a wise path to pick. I assume shooting live fire is an alternative to practice more the dry-fire/technique. In that sense, spending more time on practicing dry-fire/techniques will be a much more efficient way to reach the same goal. As you expressed in the last line.

Don't want to be too specific. Just out of curiosity, could you please share your per round cost of reload (excluding the cost of investment in equipment)? I made a calculation before, and I ended up with $0.11~0.13 per round on average (9mm).

Agreed. I mentioned C level guys, because it was surprising to me that almost all of them do reload their ammo. Some clarifications, I never said I don't want to buy factory ammo. My question was about if shooting factory ammo plays a negative role in gaining the M and GM level, so much so that the reloading ammo becomes a necessity.

I asked some of the GM's at the matches I have been to. While there were not that many, their responses were very diverse. So I thought this platform has a broader audience, and I can get more responses. To my surprise, all of the C level shooters suggested to reload ammo. And most of them do reload, but I think the financial aspect is the main driver for them. As for the Precision Deltas Match, their price is as high as a good quality factory ammo. Also, I learned a long time ago, if I shoot a re-manufacture ammo, it will be what I reload by myself. I can't trust the QA/AC of any of those re-manufacture companies. I have seen several instances of stovepipe or brass deformation with re-manufacture ammo (not particularly the mentioned company).

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you, however asking a question does not mean it is the main focus in my training. BTW, I tried that cheap ammo for training and Synthetic for match, and it did not work for me for two reasons: 1. the change in poi; I had to keep adjusting my sight between match and live fire practice, and 2. the difference in felt recoil and how fast the slide cycles made it less efficient at the match.

Do I need to reload (ammo) to facilitate-my-path/make-it-possible to reach a M/GM level? I am talking in a more general form, but mainly asking about the minor only divisions (i.e., CO and production). Also, not a fan of spending too much on factory ammo such as Federal 150gr Synthetic. The reason I am asking this question is, many of us live in an apt. or a small houses with not enough space to allocate for the reloading stuffs. I want to know how much the factory ammo with higher PF (than min needed for minor), acts as a disadvantage. Perhaps at C, or even B level, it does not really matter much. But reaching a M or GM level is tricky, and every split of second, or a tenth of an inch on target plays a huge role. One side question, among the three 9mm bullet weight (115, 124, and 147) for factory ammo, which one u suggest? The 115 has a bit more snap, but cycle faster and is more flat.on the other hand, 147 has a much softer recoil, but cycle slower and is not as flat as 115. Finally 124 hangs in the middle (both in terms of pros and cons), and I find it the best for PCC.

Give us your feedback, when you install and shoot with it. To be honest, even a $150 trigger is overpriced IMHO. You are talking about a $300+ trigger. The good thing about the free market is no matter how overprice a product be there are always someones who will buy it. Beside the price, I personally do not put such a low pull weight in a PCC platform. I have a sub 2lb trigger, but it is installed in a precision rifle. For PCC, specially if you plan to shoot in a competition, there are many fast moves and engagements that makes it supper unsafe to have a supper light trigger.

I have just installed the Hipertouch trigger with the lighter spring. It is super nice, but very different compare with my other competition triggers that I have on AR15s. No crisp break kinda feel, and it is more like a surprise break. As for braking the firing pin (assuming you have already broken a pin), did your MPX come with firing pin spring? I know the early MPX versions did not have the spring for the firing pin. I am asking, because I want to know if I need to buy some extra pins?

OK, wait wait! You started to distracted me! I mentioned in the topic: "Budget" shotgun for 3-guns. Not pay for a shotgun now, and then buy aftermarket parts that I will end-up with a Frankenstein shotgun, for God knows how much money spend in total. I know the 1301-comp or 1301-comp-pro, and M2-3gun are solid options. But, I can't justify spending at least $500~$800 more than a M3K-Freedom, unless you could provide enough reasons that could justify the difference. In that case, I will definitely buy one of those more expensive ones.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions. So apparently 1301-comp is a very popular model, correct? And among the two barrel lengths (22" and 24"), which one you suggest? For around $450 more than the M3K Freedom, does 1301-comp deliver enough benefits to justify the difference in price?

Thanks for all the inputs. I shot at a match yesterday, and the consensus of opinions of the people I asked there, and those who responded to this topic could be summarized as: 1. If you want to get a gas operate system, don't bother searching around. M4 is the way to go. 2. For a lower budget 3gus shotgun, only inertia system can bring the desire reliability. I know the Mossberg have recently introduced 940 JM pro, which presumably fixes the issue/s of the older version (930). That being said, it has a higher price tag (of course, why not. Sell a shotgun and let the users test it for you. You gain some profit, free sort of R&D, and sell a model that should have been sold in the first place at a higher price), and I prefer to wait to see whether in action it brings all the promises they claim. Even M4, to operate, does not rely solely on gas, and Benelli combined two systems to deliver a reliable system. In conclusion, I have decided to go into the inertia base system. So any suggestion other than Stoeger M3K Freedom (in that price range)?

Could you tell us what are those three triggers that you tried on your PCC? Are they having different pull weights? I am asking this, because for me, the main reason to change a trigger of rifle in general, is to bring the pull weight down to sub-3lb. The second point is to have a short reset. Having a crisp brake is not relevant anymore, because all of the aftermarket triggers that I've tried, are crisp enough that they all feel identical (I am talking about actual rifle cal. guns, but assume PCC behaves the same).

Good budget shotgun for 3guns match. Kinda old question, but the answers I have found are more confusing than providing a guidance! You can find feedback from 100% reliable awesome, to never ever even think about it, for both of the following models: Mossberg 930 JM pro, and Stoeger M3K Freedom. Basically the main difference is the cycling system: Stoeger M3K Freedom is Inertia Driven, and Mossberg 930 JM pro is gas driven. So I assume Mossberg 930 JM pro has less felt recoil, but needs to be cleaned after every match, to function reliably. Stoeger M3K Freedom is the opposite, more recoil, and less subject to be unreliable due to not cleaning it. I don't want to spend too much on shotgun, so $1k+ shotguns, such as M2 and M4, are out of the conversation. If you have shot with them in a 3guns-match, could you please share your thoughts and suggestions? Also, other than those two models, if u have other suggestions, please share them.

I think it worth to share my experience. I ordered the trigger on 12/30, and received a wrong trigger on 1/8! They (TheGunDock) shipped a Timney for Remington 700 trigger, instead of PCC-681. So I returned the trigger, received the refund yesterday, and ordered a "hipertouch genesis" trigger from another store! I will post a report on the new trigger, as soon as I get and install it, and finish my first match with the new trigger .

Competition: full size pistol. For self-defence, I strongly believe prevention is the best defense. So for 90% of the places I go, it is safe enough that I don't need to carry. For the remaining 10%, either G19, or G43, depending on the application.

Sent you PM. As I expressed in my PM, do NOT buy a used item online at that price range, unless you can find a gunsmith that you trust to inspect the item first.

This is the key point in your respond: "If we let people play the personalized division game, here will be 40 divisions ...". That is exactly the reason that when you asked me "So what would your ideal division look like?", I said it is not my job to define an ideal division. It is not about an individual opinion or taste.