Rangerdug

Invictus followed by taccom are the best options out there in my opinion. I have used all of the big names and I like those to the best. I would say, at the next match ask someone to borrow caddies you are interested in. The 3gun community is the most open about sharing. We have all been there and know you can't afford to buy something you're not going to like. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MOD1 is a great option. They do some amazing work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes, you can. If you have experience with AR's not too badSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Taran is making plus 10 for the MPX too. I don't know when they will be in the store. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did the same. It helps minimizes my hold-offs.

I mean like a stick poking out if the ground within the shooting area. That would be nothing like fault lines, shooting boxes, or props and activators. That would be a tripping hazard.So, it is ok to trip on the previously mentioned items, but now we are more worried about a thin vertical rod/ pipe?Point is he points out a very easy solution to a lot of previous gripes. He unlike me is a MD, who has a lot of experience in the matter, but that isn't good enough. With every solution it seems some only find more to gripe about. The reason I responded, is I happen to trip over a fault line on Sunday. It is what it is, there at any given match plenty of items to trip over, at major match we love the wazoo stages. Climbing, holding ropes, swings, even riding roller coaster carts. Yet the idea of a stake is crazy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does the aim point reside within the shooting area? Seems like it could be a tripping hazard unless I misunderstand how it is used. When you say tripping hazard? Do you mean like the PVC pipe, wood, or metal we use for fault lines and shooting boxes, or like props and activators? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I disagree with that statement. One, most guys shooting PCC were guys that shot pistols so that is unrealistic comment. As for is of match size and ultimately limits. I would think it sucks for any person to not make the cut, but it has nothing to do with the firearms used. I need remind you what the P stands for in USPSA...hint, it ain't pistol.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is different than having one new RO. This is having an entire match staff on their first time. In USPSA most ROs have no experience with long guns. I thought PCC could be fun when it was first brought up, but the more matches I see it at the less I like it and do t think it fits in a USPSA match. One of the major downsides to 3 gun for a lot of us is the concept of "big boy rules" allowing borderline unsafe behavior. I've been muzzled more times by PCC shooters than I had been in 5 years of shooting/ROing/stats/MD. Wouldn't it be part of your responsibilities as an RO to read up and familiarize yourself on the PCC rules. If someone muzzles you ( I would like to know the context/ definition of "all" these times.), what was/is your response. Are you pointing it out, DQ'ing them or nothing. Because that seems a rather bloated claim to make with a Div that is only a couple of weeks old, with five years of experience. If someone points any type of gun at me, there are going to be words. Not always tense, I will educate a novice and the occasional ignorant shooter the first time, after that kindness is over. This is a learning process after all, and if you ain't correctly educating/correcting people how will they learn. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well saidSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doug, at this point you have probably spent more time writing about PCC haters in this thread than shooting USPSA in the last few months. Before you cast judgment on a bunch of volunteers doing a service to the shooting community maybe you should get to a few more matches and interact with a few more folks at those clubs.. You may be surprised at why they aren't offering it they in fact aren't. So Price, can I call you Price? In your opinion, how many matches do I need to attend to have an opinion? Obviously, Sunday didn't count. Maybe, Ramah? Ha!!! How about Centennial? Nope!

I assume this was directed at me since I made the comment about having all of the PCC shooters in the same squad at my match this past weekend. Not entirely sure now that makes me a tool. Actually, I think that makes me a responsible match director. I was shooting PCC at my match, and I wanted all of our PCC shooters in the same squad since this was the first go at it. I wanted to make sure that everyone knew the PCC rules (bagging, chamber flags, etc) and that everything ran smoothly the first time. From this point forward, PCC shooters are free to squad wherever they want. You must have never been a match director, and that's probably a good thing. You would be correct in your assumption. First I am not a match director, never claimed to be one. Secondly, it is probably a very good thing. I have little patience for stupidity, without a doubt. I don't do well with those that stress over stuff that need not be stressed about (reading more in to the rules then need to be, that feel that every movement needs to be scrutinized). I also can get pretty mean when pushed. That being said I have witnessed very good MDs/ROs do their thing, who can apply the rules throughout a match seamless. They are flexible when needed, but stern when pushed. They can communicate the rules from experience to the point, everybody is capable of understanding. You are not afraid to ask them questions, and respect their answers. Then there are the guys who feel that they are called by God as his only ambassadors to understanding the rules. Should you not agree with their divine interpretation, you will be cast out in to the desert. (I am not saying you are, so chill) Now, that we have established that I am not a MD. I am still undeterred in calling a spade a spade. If that offends some, Cool. I did have an issue with the idea of squading all of the PPC together, for all the reasons previously stated. Honestly since here on this site I have only your words to draw a conclusion, I responded in form. From what you wrote, I did fail to see the what you need to get your head around. I still don't understand what needed to be covered in bagging, you have been in USPSA a lot longer then me, every match we unbag and bag do we not? A pistol and a Carbine all have a muzzle, a chamber, a bolt/slide face, and magwell, do the they not? As for start positions, low ready is not hard ( especially as address on this thread(if i can teach booger eaters this concept, so they don't shoot their buddy or myself in the back, teaching americans should be fairly easy.) All of these issues can be covered in the walk through or safety brief. Now, I do applaud and respect you, for leading the squad. And though I may not have agreed with it (all PCC squad), you obviously used it as a teaching moment, good on you. You, Tom, Old Sarge can run your matches anyway you want. There are a lot of things i absolutely agree with you on, and obviously stuff I don't. But if your only defense is to throw your MD card, you' all are better than that. Don't get butt hurt because I or others may disagree with you. I will never say I am always right, and I am not afraid of being educated (Grumpy does it all the time). However, I am stubborn and you better have a valid case.

Yes, practiced a little after the match. Being used to reloading short pistol mags it was wrong grabbing that long magazine at the bottom end and it has be in the pouch like a 223 mag, ammo facing backwards. Need to practice more. Thank you!I think you both are on point. You can't load the like pistol. For a lack of words to describe it, you want to beer can the mag, I think that is what Norb is eluding to. You insert the mag in the magwell firmly and give a quick tug ensuring a lock, rather then the slap on the bottom. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I came up with that all by myself. I'm curious if you even read what I wrote. It doesn't seem so. I take it you don't actually realize that there is a default start position for handgun, and everybody does not do it their own way?I take it that you also didn't actually read what I wrote, when I said that like any other time, WSBs can specify other start positions, but having a singular one will solve the problems of people saying "port arms" or low ready which we already know people don't agree upon, or starting in random positions? No? That is funny!?! So....having a simple, single default start position for PCC exactly like we have a simple, single default start position for handgun is NOT applying the KISS principle, in your estimation?What an interesting idea. Reading this thread, if you remove all the posts by Rangerdug, there has been some good discussion and a minimum of namecalling. Very Bold, but we don't have to be friends. I personally would prefer that start position to have the rifle pointed downrange instead of upward---meaning it would be pointed into a berm, instead of over the berm. That's just a personal preference, so I'm good with whatever. But having the rifle start (right before people pull it up to their eyes while taking off the safety) pointed at a berm is something I like better.We are finally in agreement. Honestly, that is exactly my point of simplicity, not over thought. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^^^I can't agree more^^^ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do have room to be upset. 5 of the local matches in my area are not allowing PCC's not do safety concerns but because of narrow mindedness. Now how can I be influential as you mentioned in changing attitudes, if in the end, i am not allowed to shoot at the match. You could offer to set up a PCC match and run it how you want. OR, we all can shoot together at a USPSA match. It is funny that is the quick answer go shoot your own match. As if I have said that everyone has to shoot PCC. I am not forcing anyone to do anything. It's quite the opposite. Great solution though using your logic we should run: A revolver match for the two revolver shooters in the state. A production match for those who need a challenge. A single stack match for those who like to reload. An open match for those who like to shoot fast and not reload. Better yet everyone has to shoot only limited. It is the happy medium. OR you let people shoot what they want within USPSA rules, for the reasons they want, ultimately shooting with their friends in the other divisions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That broomstick is still attached to the arm of the shooter. And honestly the mechanics aren't that different. I have carried a carbine, very similar to what I use in competition for over 17yrs. I honestly have yet to see a stage that I could not shoot with a carbine. that it isn't say it isn't easier with pistol. But to use that as an excuse is weak. There are plenty of ways to add difficulty that challenges all shooters. In every stage, in every target one division has advantage over the others. In the past it has always been the Open guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will say -- we probably had at least one, often more than one target per match that was enough of a weird lean/tight angle shot that you'd never be able to shoot it with a carbine............so, allowing PCC in the same match, would require changing the skills we were looking to test..... I'm pretty sure I'd rather set PCC as a side match, or as a separate standalone match.... That represents the challenge. I have stated before that for every perceived advantage there are more disadvantages to shooting PCC in a handgun match. That should be celebrated. If it was easy everyone would do it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If there is good reason for, Safety, range limitations, or state laws I got it. However, if it is ego driven or that obstinate reasons, we are better than that. You go to shoot because you like to shoot. At any given match you are going to shoot a gun, at which point you will be scored. If it falls within the USPSA rules, who cares what gun you shoot!?! PCC is nothing more than a glorified open gun. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk WTFC? I'm guessing "who the f*#k cares?" At this point it sounds like you do. More than most! Also, you will get exactly nowhere trying to strong arm anybody, whether it be some guys on a forum or an MD at a match you want to shoot. And guess what? It works exactly like Nik described it above. As an MD I mostly ignored those guys who bitched about the match as they were driving out the gate while I still had a few hours work to do after a match. If you wanted to influence my decisions you had to be a contributor or possibly be a part of the vocal majority and respectfully make your wishes known. You read it right. However you have missed my point. As stated before this is a individual sport, meaning you're only responsible for your actions. Delving deeper the gun, ammo, equipment, and division are all shooter preference((IAW the rules). That being said you can only worry about you. I do have room to be upset. 5 of the local matches in my area are not allowing PCC's not do safety concerns but because of narrow mindedness. Now how can I be influential as you mentioned in changing attitudes, if in the end, i am not allowed to shoot at the match. Some one mentioned in an early post how can this be so contentious, it just started. Exactly!!! Even Nik alluded to the ignorance being demonstrated, when talking about velocities. Sarge, you yourself stated you bought a PCC. Why? Because it looks fun. As one who has shot several times, I can say it is a blast. I absolutely do care. I care that I am given the opportunity to shoot a sanctioned division. I don't care what you or anyone else wants to shoot or does shoot. That is your choice, good on you.

If there is good reason for, Safety, range limitations, or state laws I got it. However, if it is ego driven or for obstinate reasons, we are better than that. You go to shoot because you like to shoot. At any given match you are going to shoot a gun, at which point you will be scored. If it falls within the USPSA rules, who cares what gun you shoot!?! PCC is nothing more than a glorified open gun. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only division that should matter is the one you shoot. Other that WTFC!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is becoming obvious that there is a growing Movement to squash the PCC division. Not by allowing it to run its own course, but by more of a heavy handed approach, Mafia style. They don't like it, so they simply bar people the opportunity to shoot their matches. USPSA sanctioned matches. Seems very American!!! I love fact that as paying member of USPSA, I can't shoot in an approved division, all because the "Don" doesn't like it. To the members of POP, grow up. If you don't like PCC, great!!! Don't shoot it!!!But stop lording over others and preventing them from shooting and competing. For a moment remember that we are Americans; and shooting USPSA is another form expression of our 2A. Stop acting like communists, let the Division sink or swim on it's own. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't 3 gun the game that has different rules for different clubs on different days of the month? I don't shoot 3 gun but do know they tend to take pride in operating without a bunch of pesky rules like us USPSA guys. But now I'm supposed to feel confident in doing something the way they do it. Just makes it seem even more obvious that PCC belongs in multi gunMultigun!?! for some who has never shot 3gun and know absolutely nothing about it, thank you for expert opinion. Again if you want shoot your pistols, go shoot your pistols. If you have no interest in shooting PCCs, go shoot your pistol. Point is you have your reason for shooting USPSA, you obviously like it. There is a reason why you shoot the division you shoot. Again you probably like it. However, all of the issues we are having with PCC are not coming from those that shoot it, but all those that are threatened by it. Why? Egos!?! It would appear so! To those of us that are shooting PCC's want to shoot USPSA... It represents a fun challenge. if you don't like it, how bout you go shoot multigun. You might like it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Hmm. The post I made earlier explained that I bought a PCC just to shoot it. I have always been a supporter of PCC. You did a good job reading the second post though. I did read your posts. What I found fault was your understanding of 3gun, and your statement on relationship between PCCs and multigun. I also took liberties in addressing other posts within this thread. Posts that either represent blatant ignorance or undeserved contempt. Obviously we are on the same team, but I have the right to challenge your assertions, as you or anyone can with mine. I appreciate clarity and even debate if I have misconstrued or disagree with your intended point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't 3 gun the game that has different rules for different clubs on different days of the month? I don't shoot 3 gun but do know they tend to take pride in operating without a bunch of pesky rules like us USPSA guys. But now I'm supposed to feel confident in doing something the way they do it. Just makes it seem even more obvious that PCC belongs in multi gunMultigun!?! for some who has never shot 3gun and know absolutely nothing about it, thank you for expert opinion. Again if you want shoot your pistols, go shoot your pistols. If you have no interest in shooting PCCs, go shoot your pistol. Point is you have your reason for shooting USPSA, you obviously like it. There is a reason why you shoot the division you shoot. Again you probably like it. However, all of the issues we are having with PCC are not coming from those that shoot it, but all those that are threatened by it. Why? Egos!?! It would appear so! To those of us that are shooting PCC's want to shoot USPSA... It represents a fun challenge. if you don't like it, how bout you go shoot multigun. You might like it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk