LocoGringo

My experience mirrors Bidah's. I shot the XDm 5.25, but moved to a 2011 about a year and a half ago. I'm not worthy of the 2011...yet, but I wasn't worthy of the XDm either. Maybe I'll get there one day.

Thanks for the replies. I was talking with a buddy yesterday and I misunderstood him apparently. He wants to START an obstacle course/2-gun or 3-gun type match. I'm not exactly sure what he's thinking since he hasn't attended any competition matches, but he asked me if that type of match exists locally since he knows I do quite a bit of 3-gun. I know of nothing like that within a 2 hour radius of Knoxville and really don't know if anything like that exists. photoracer, I know of the MGM Ironman East competition you're talking about as I hope to shoot it next year. I think he wants more physical obstacles involved, but I need to pick his brain to really find out what he's thinking about. I know he's an avid crossfitter, so maybe he's thinking about something like American Ninja Warrior mixed with some shooting...who knows. I need to get more info from him.

That's disappointing. I was thinking about 2017, but got more info? Edit to add: I just looked on the Practiscore website and it said registration is closed, but nothing was said about the match being canceled. Also checked the Peacemaker site and nothing is mentioned about Ironman East being canceled.

Mechanic, it's been a while, but I'd like to answer your question and get your thoughts if you catch this thread...or replies from anyone. I'm loading 149 power factor because I want to get ready for the MGM Ironman East and I want to be able to hit the spinner targets with authority and send them over with 2 or 3 solid hits. I've never actually shot them, so I don't really know what it takes. Since I THINK that's what it will take, that's what I'm loading to shoot all the time to get accustomed to the recoil. I hope I'm not loading so hot that I'll damage my pistol. I couldn't find load data for the components I'm using, so I was told by a technician at Ramshot to pick a load between the 124 and 147 and start there. I started at 4.8 grains, then went to 5.0 and settled on 5.2. Please feel free to tell me if my thinking is off base since I've never had the opportunity to shoot an MGM spinner.

The type of competition I'm wondering about would be a mix of 2-gun (pistol/rifle) or maybe 3-gun if guns can be pre-staged rather than carried the entire time and an obstacle course. Does that type of competition exist anywhere? I've seen where there are competitions that mix 2-gun and a 5K race which might be close.

Not to be picky, but I hope you mean 1.145" for OAL rather than 1.45". If you go with what you listed, the round won't fit in your gun. Garmil sounds right also. That does seem light. I load a 135 Black Bullets over 5.2 grains of Silhouette to get a 149 power factor. A bit high for competition, but your load sounds really light in comparison.

Shoulda made your username......."Barney". Good advice for a match double check received.

I have both the 1-4 power and the 1.5-6 power and MUCH prefer the 1.5-6 power scope. It's a full size scope, so it's heavier, but the reticle works better for me in that power range. The extra magnification also helps quite a bit for those targets that are farther out. The illumination isn't great for daytime, but why would you need illumination on a bright day?

OK, I'm going to revive this thread since I've done some testing and am happy with some results. I loaded the 135 grain Black Bullets over 4.8 grains of Silhouette powder, 5.0 and 5.2 grains. I tweaked the COAL to 1.145-1.150" so that they would all "plunk" test in the STI barrel and the XDm barrel. I learned that I can load longer in the STI barrel than the XDm. The cutoff for the XDm was 1.15". If the round was longer, it wouldn't pass. The 5.0 grains of powder grouped nicely vertically, but was WAY left horizontally...so far left, I ran out of adjustment on the sights. I went up to the 5.2 grains and it shot perfectly horizontally, but was stringing vertically at 15 yards. I had a few left, so I tested at 20 yards and 7 yards. The stringing was more pronounced at 20 yards and shot high (predictably), but the surprising results were at 7 yards...1 hole with 10 rounds directly on target. Does that make any sense? Is there something I can play with for the vertical stringing at distance? I absolutely can't exceed 1.150" COAL because I want the rounds to work reliably in both pistols if I need to switch pistols for some reason. Another question I have is limits. I've chronographed the rounds and they are a very nice average of 1106 FPS which produces a power factor of 149. Do you think there is more room for increasing the load beyond 5.2 grains of Silhouette under a 135 grain coated bullet?

I'll likely be traveling from Tennessee to New Mexico for a school and will have weekends off. A co-worker who is going with me is from New Mexico and we both enjoy shooting long range. I'm lucky to get a 500 yard range, so New Mexico will surely be a challenge. My rig includes a suppressor, so I'm wondering how I'm supposed to transport this suppressor legally. Do I check it with my rifle or am I supposed to carry it with me for carry-on? Will the airline allow me to carry-on since it's a 9.5" metal tube? If you don't know the answer, do you know where I can go and find out? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

I read an article a while back debating this very thing. A lot of the military snipers admit that civilian PRS shooters are better for purely shooting because they may get more practice, have better equipment and handload ammo. The military sniper gets mass produced ammo handed to him, may get to make a few mods to his rifle but ultimately, it's US government property and a lot of their training is something other than shooting.

My go to recipe is: 2.825" COAL 44.5 grains Varget 175 SMK WCC brass Federal 210M primer If I remember correctly, the muzzle velocity was in the range of 2700 FPS from a 1:11.25 twist, 24" barrel. I need to chrono again as it's been a long time since I've tested the speed. It's a solid 3/4 MOA recipe out of my rifle.

Sloboataz, I checked Steve's page and his #5 rule (which he was very adament about) specifically mentioned his reloading info did NOT apply to coated lead bullets, which Black Bullets International are. Having said that, his range for a 130 grain bullet went from 4.6-6.1 grains of Silhouette. Not bad since I was figuring between 4.8-5.1 grains using Ramshot loading data. It seems I was in the neighborhood. The reason I've chosen the 135 BBI bullet is because some very experienced 3-gun shooters at my local club use them, so I'm going to give them a try. I have NOT ruled out the 147 though. The 135 is just where I'm starting.

Jack, you're probably right that it's not that difficult to send bullets through a chronograph and then onto a target, but I REALLY want to give an honest effort to shooting as accurately as I can without worrying about hitting the chronograph. Shooting a pistol from a benched position will also be a new experience for me. With so many new experiences, I'm gonna take it slow. I figure it'll take more time at the range, but is spending more time at the range really ever a bad thing? I don't really have a PF in mind because I'm testing with a 135 grain projectile that I can't find data for, so I don't really know what's possible. I know I want it to hit hard so that I won't have to strike a MGM spinner 6 times to send it over. Because Silhouette isn't known for being soft and it was what I could find when powder was hard to find, it's what I'm using.

Thanks for the responses. I kinda figured that 10 rounds wouldn't truly be enough to test accuracy for the pistol. I was trying to be cheap and lazy I guess. Like I said, I'm not trying to make a minor or major power factor, but I do want enough power to knock down steel authoritatively...I'm not trying to make powder puff loads. So does 15-20 rounds shot rested at 20 yards sound like a solid accuracy test for pistol? If they show promise for accuracy, I'll chronograph afterwards. I'm not interested in blazing speed if it doesn't deliver the payload where I want it. I'd like to multitask, but since this is a new endeavor for me, I'll test for accuracy first, then speed.

I've been reloading precision rifle for several years but am new to pistol loading. I'm a 3-gun shooter using primarily a 9mm STI Marauder and backup of 9mm XDm 5.25. I'll be loading on a 550b using 135grain Black Bullets and Silhouette powder. I'm not trying to make any specific power factor, but I'd like the rounds to have enough "oomph" to knock down steel authoritatively (think MGM spinner target). The ultimate goal is to be able to compete in the Ironman East and not embarrass myself. I've plateaued in skill and now must actually practice, so I'm starting with the pistol. For load development, how many test rounds do you load for accuracy testing? I'm guessing 10 for two 5-round groups, but that may not be enough. What distance do you test at...10 yards, 20 yards, 18.5 yards, whatever? Finding load data for this combo has been impossible, even after writing directly to Ramshot. They recommended starting somewhere in the middle of the load data for a similar 147 grain coated lead bullet. So, given that info, what should I be looking for in pressure signs in the brass? Also, if you have any load data for the combination of the 135 black bullet and Silhouette powder, please feel free to share. Thanks for any help or info you can provide.

I need a photo of this to see how it was done. I don't really want to load 2 with the weak hand.

Welcome from Knoxville. It's an obsessive disease...be careful.

Good, there's really nothing to be scared of. The bolt carrier I use with my rifle length gas system is a M16...it's not even CLOSE to a lightweight setup for a BCG and I still don't have any malfunctions with commercially loaded ammo.

I haven't posted much because I've been doing a lot more reading, but if they're in stock, an AR15performance 18" .223 Wylde chambered, melonited barrel with rifle length gas, 5R rifling and 1:8 twist has served me VERY well for the past year and a half. I run suppressors on other AR-15 rifles, so adjustable gas blocks are necessary, but I've been tinkering with the idea of going to a low mass carrier and the exact SLR gas block you are describing for my unsuppressed 3-gun rifle. I have a SLR on a different rifle for use with a suppressor and it works wonderfully. It really is a "set it and forget it" gas block that is easy to use. I haven't had a single malfunction out of this rifle yet and have shot 69 grain and 77 grain commercially loaded match ammo very accurately as well as cheap 55 grain ammo (though not as accurately obviously) and it was all commercially loaded. To prepare for the Rockcastle Pro/Am last year, I shot my PMC bronze ammo at 300 yards to get my aiming point for that distance and was able to get 3 of 5 rounds within 1.1" and all 5 rounds would have easily been on a 5" steel target. If you're handloading, whether it's 55 grain or 69 grain or 77 grain, you should easily get better results that will be 100% reliable as well since you'll likely be loading a little "hotter" than commercial loads. For future upgrades or better "tuning", an adjustable gas block is a really good idea. The SLR is an excellent choice. I've also used a Syrac Gen I and a PRI adjustable, but they don't compare to the SLR. A closer comparison to the SLR might be the Syrac Gen II, but I've looked at their specs and I still like the SLR better. For your struggle in the decision of gas length, the rifle length gas system is unmatched in soft recoil impulse. When coupled with a proper "tune" on the gas block, a low mass carrier (so I'm told) and a very effective muzzle device, recoil doesn't exist. You might as well be shooting a .22. I'm no pro, but I'm able to get .15 second splits on double taps at 30 yards that easily stay on target for being neutralized...and I don't have a low mass carrier or an adjustable gas block yet. Edit to add: If you can't wait for the AR15performance barrel, I've not heard anything bad about Blackhole Weaponry barrels, but have no actual experience with them either. The others you list, I don't know about, but with the variance of competitions you list, I would prefer to go with a .223 Wylde chamber over a 5.56 NATO.

I went through this debate about a year ago and decided on a M2. More for the price of the gun than any perceived functional advantage. I was able to get a 26" barreled NIB M2 on Gunbroker for $900 plus shipping and I found no Berettas for anything less than $1000. That sealed the deal for me. On another note, I've never really understood the 21" barrel fad. If the magazine tube you add is significantly longer than the barrel, what's the advantage of having such a short barrel when the mag tube is so long anyway? There is only a slight weight savings and I've always thought it looks kind of goofy.

I own and used a Mega side-charger with a Young Manufacturing side-charging BCG for 3-gun. It was good, but provided zero advantages over a normal charging handle practically speaking. It was easier to unload and show clear, but the charging handle tried to back out spontaneously. To remedy that situation, you can't use loctite because you've got to break that seal every time you clean the gun because you have to remove the charging handle, so what I did was use a rubber O-ring around the base of the threads and that worked. Unfortunately, I guess because the threads weren't completely in the BCG, the handle broke from the threads during a course of fire. It didn't stop or interfere with my shooting, but it's definitely a negative. It cost me at least (if I remember correctly) $20 to replace the charging handle. The side-charging handle never interfered with any shooting positions (I've never really understood that "drawback" because every AK on the planet I know of uses a side-charging handle and they have no problems), but in my opinion, it's a novelty that offers no practical advantages. I've since built an AR specifically for 3-gun and returned to the standard charging handle option. I still have the side-charging handle upper, but it's been relegated to a more precision type rig.

I've been shooting 3-gun for about 7 years off and on (when work schedule rotates so that I can shoot) in East Tennessee rotating among TAC2 in Greeneville, ORSA in Oak Ridge and CHRPC in Cleveland, TN. I've shot the Rockcastle Pro/Am as a pro in both 2013 and 2014 with consistent finishes to assess where I'm weak against the real pros. I've almost gotten my gear set to where I think I'm ready for the bucket list item of shooting the MGM Ironman and discovered recently that they are planning on starting one in West Virginia called the MGM Ironman East in 2016. I'm aiming for 2017. My gear is: Frankenrifle AR-15 with an 18" barrel, Timney trigger, Mega billet upper/lower and MTAC 1.5-6 scope (all a heavy combo, but I'm drinking milk and working out) Benelli M2 26" barrel with a 10 round Nordic mag tube Springfield XDm 5.25 in 9mm and, on the way, a STI Marauder (I funded the Marauder by selling a 1969 Python, so I'm not rich) I use Invictus Practical caddies for shotgun loading and have a LBV that holds 28 rounds. I've got to iron out my pistol and will begin loading Black Bullets International 135 grain bullets on a Dillon 550 at some point. I also need to practice loading the shotgun from the vest and need to learn how to break down a large target array shotgun stage. They overwhelm me and I've got to learn how to handle them. I'm looking for a good holster for the Marauder that will protect it and make an easy draw while remaining secure. I'm leaning towards the Blade-Tech OWB with the Drop/offset tek-lok attachment. Any other ideas to look at? I will also need mag holders for the new magazines. Open to ideas... Thanks for reading my long introduction.