RandyLahey

I bought a new M&P9 FS last Oct/Nov 2014. Has the newer barrel, trigger system etc... Enjoyed the gun. Put an Apex poly trigger and FSS kit in it, and that really made the gun. Some TruGlo fiber optic sights with tritium topped it off. Liked the gun so much I decided to try one of Bud's police trade 40's(SW M&P40 full size with night sites). I got that 40 and shot I a little. Had the old crappy trigger in it, so that promptly go replaced by the Apex poly trigger and FSS. Shooting that 40 I can hold groups easily half the size of my 9mm. Several things I'm wondering about for the "worse" 9mm accuracy!!! 1) for whatever reason my 9mm reloads need more work. I could see this, but I just don't think I'm barking up the right tree here. I've had other's shoot my ammo and they've commented that it's shot really nice/accurate. I've tried 124's and 147's as well as some factory 115, 124 ammo and it all seems to shoot similar groups. 2) Got lucky with the 40 or unlucky with the 9mm. Did I just get an awesome barrel in the 40, or a slightly poor barrel in the 9mm. Hitting the small steel disks at 12-15 yards is a challenge for the 9mm, whereas the 40 I can peg them EASY. I'd estimate at 7-10yards, I'm shooting a 3" group with the 9mm and if I take my time a 1-1.5" group with the 40, most of the shots will touch, with only an occasional flier that is my fault. 3) Some of it could be mental as well. I am a bit more focused shooting the 40 since it does thump more and maybe I'm just mechanically more "correct" in how I shoot the 40, vs being more relaxed or laid back shooting the 9?? I doubt this for the most part, but cannot rule it out. I do try with the 9mm, and even really concentrating I cannot seem to get near the same grouping with the 9mm. 4) I've heard that SW 9 vs 40, the 40 is more accurate in general, but is it that much more accurate??? Is the 9mm being slightly tapered, in a factory pistol(looser chamber) more prone to this accuracy falloff? Am I expecting too much out of the 9mm? I still like the 9mm. Doing drills etc... I can still complete them, hit targets etc... But I have way more confidence when shooting the 40 just based off of how well it shoots, I feel any misses are ON ME. While when I shoot the 9mm I'm generally at fault for misses, but some shots feel good but miss; and that kind of "wonder" or lack of confidence kind of pisses me off. 5) I shoot 165 plated xtreme and 180 fp(xtreme and BBI coated) on the 40, and 124 RN(xtreme), and 147FP(BBI coated). I've heard FP/flat points can shoot more accurate vs RN's due to CG being more rearward on the FP. Maybe I need to experiment with 124/135gr FP's on the 9mm???? Last night at our local private range night, we were doing some various drills. One of which was a timed draw and shoot at 22-25yards to hit a steel silhouette. I was able to hit it every time with the 40, but missed once or twice with the 9mm. Again part of that could be psyching myself out as now I'm thinking about the 9mm vs 40 accuracy. Maybe I just need to stop thinking and go shooting lol.

Currently, I run a Lee loadmaster in 9mm, and a Hornady LnL AP for 40SW and 223(no casefeeder, base press). Having that basic case feeder on my Loadmaster has spoiled me. I also like how it primes on the same stroke as all of the other work. Either I go all in on the LnL and buy a case feeder or I'm going to sell it, and go blue. I have no brand loyalty other than I want something that works well. The Loadmaster works fairly well, but I do get some occasional primer issues(tipped, missing etc..). The LnL I'm still pretty new at running it, so I don't think it's fair to blame all of the tinkering I do on the press. I need about 2k-4k of 9/40 a month, and 4-5k of 223 a year. So high volume isn't my need, but time savings is. I just don't have several hours a week to make ammo, even though I would enjoy it if I could devote more time to reloading, it's just not realistic, at least during the non winter months in IL. Too much going on with the family etc... My LnL had to go back to Hornady when I first got it for indexing issues. Those were fixed, but I'm not sure which way I want to go. I like some things about that press, but wonder if I'm missing out on a better press in the 650. When I think about the 650 and what I consider for that press it would be mandatory for me to get the case feeder, if I'm not mistaken, you are near $800-900 with various bits. I'd also want an inline Fab handle as that was worth the $$$ on the LnL for sure. At that price point I start to wonder if maybe I should just go whole hog and get the 1050 as running 223 would be NICE on that press. But then I get concerned with changeover times, costs etc... I'm really confused on what to do. I know everyone is different etc... and what someone's needs/wants may not line up with another person's. I guess I'm just seeking opinions. I also get worried I'd be one of the unlucky people with the daisy chain primer explosions with the Dillon 650 . PS for the blue advocates, which press would you recommend, why, and what would normal setup costs be for each press? I can find the retail prices, but I'm talking about all of the hidden costs like little bits here and there, caliber conversions, tool heads etc... For the 1050 I'd probably just move dies and not get extra heads, but I'd still need the shell plates, extra powder measure etc... I'm good on dies, have 2 sets(lee and Hornady) for each caliber I load. I'd also probably keep my Loadmaster as they aren't worth that much, and for whatever reason that little homely bastard has earned my respect and I'll find some jobs for it, or keep it dedicated to a caliber I shoot less frequently. If I can't figure out why my 9mm M&P can't hang in accuracy with my M&P40 I'll probably switch most of my pistol work over to my 40.

I got 3k of them. First 1k I prefer the over Tula SPP as with the Tulas I was getting light strikes on my M&P40 with Apex trigger and FSS.. Work well in both my Lee loadmaster and Hornady LnL AP press. I'll be ordering more. I feel they are softer than the Tula's due to the ability of my M&P to light them all

ok thx

Miranda, No I don't have a lathe, or more importantly any ability to run one lol. I'd be a true fish out of water there seating dies is just to seat. I have a LCD to crimp. I will say that at first, I had my seating die adjusted that it would start to crimp my 124's but not totally remove all of the bell. With the 147's it seemed to fully crimp, so I had to back off on that as well.

agreed, I'd be interested in that product

I have a hornady 9mm seating die I may eventually try, but for now the Lee seater is working well enough. I assume the BBI need more belling as the coating may bring the OD of the bullet somewhat more vs the plated. Or maybe it's b/c the 147s are so much longer and need the belling to extend "lower" to avoid the shaving? I'm not sure myself. Fairly new at reloading :/. Learning a lot along the way .

you were getting leading from coated bullets in your stock G34 barrel? If so, I think there is another issue at play. I was getting leading, but that was from shaving the bullets on seating. opening the bell on the case and futzing with my crimping helped that out.

I have my Lee Loadmaster setup for 9mm and I've been fairly happy with it. I know people love to hate Lee, and it is NOT a perfect press, but for my $ and time, it's been decent and has a fairly low rate of failed rounds(missing/tipped primers, bent brass rims etc...) When I only shot plated bullets, the Lee powder through expander seemed to work very well. Now that I'm shooting some BBI bullets, I noticed that going from 124gr 9mm Xtreme plated RN to 147gr BBI flat point bullets, I needed to open up the bell quite a bit on the cases. Without opening up the cases that much, I would get some shaving of the coating and leading of the barrel. I think I may have been over crimping just a touch, but I'd say 98% of the issue was shaving, as I could see some plastic black shaving at times. So I opened up the bell as much as I could, while still being able to seat bullets. If I opened up too far, I could get crushed rims of the case on entering the seating die. Finding a happy medium, I was able to get the adjustment to where it seems I avoid the shaving, and don't get any hang ups on the seating die. Also adjusted the LCD to just take the bell off, and measure at 3.77-3.78. I am also using a Hornady expanding die in station 2 of that press to help hold the shell in place while priming. I have it adjusted to just hold the shell and not bell the case. I got to thinking the other night, that maybe the Hornady would do a better job of expanding the case w/out excessively belling the mouth of the case????????? I've never used the Hornady to expand the case though, and before I start messing with the dies I thought I'd ask here. I ask these questions as I've come across threads talking about "improper" expanding, but I wasn't really following which dies were good or bad at this process. thx

sorry plz delete. For some reason I cannot copy paste and I'm too lazy to write out all of the info from my chrony shots. Basically, I'm getting SD's in the low to mid 20's shooting 165's at lower FPS. Once I get the FPS into the 1000-1050 range, the SD's get into the high teens. 180's shooting at 890-930fps SD's were 17 which for what little development I did with that load, and being a very accurate load I'll probably just leave that one alone for now. sorry to bother you all . Wish the copy paste worked

Wanting to store some SHTF ammo in 40SW. Not likely to use this, but just in case. I've bought pulled 9mm Gold dots before and thought they were decent for the $. What are some recommendations for either new or pulled bullets in the 165-180gr range, that have good ballistics/expansion and are reasonable pricing. I'd like 500-1k.

I haven't tried E3 but the other shotgun Alliant powders work great for me. American select and green dot do well in my guns. I'll give E3 a go next time I get powder if it's available

American select and Green dot work well for target/plinking

thx all. I'll have a look at those suggestions. The plated HP won't work for me. I shoot at a quarry with some current and ex LEO guys and the steel/.AR500 targets they use; the guy that runs it says we can't shoot HP. Either true HP or plated HP bullets. Says they will fragment and are a safety hazard. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant as it's their quarry and rules, so I'm not going to rock the boat. Love shooting with them and the site.

I've only shot Xtreme and BBI through my 40 so far, but both shoot well, with the edge to the BBI so far.

Anyone know of a company making 147gr flat point projectiles. I can get coated, but I haven't seen plated in 147gr. Just curious.

ps I do have a chrono on order(backorder at midway). Waiting impatiently!

Well I thank you sir! Yeah I'd imagine running what I was I'm lucky. I only found a couple of threads where AS powder was referenced with 147's and either I got something wrong, or it was a vastly different powder lot. I would have to go with my fault. The lower loads of AS at 3.5 or so seemed good to shoot, but it wouldn't meter well for me, so I switched to green dot. thx

added pics. BTW, I've never run "glocked" brass through my setups. I have standard LEE sizing dies. Not sure if my dies will take this out, or not. Should I just scrap the bulged brass?

I would tend to believe the shaving is the issue then in regards to the leading. I had to open up the belling of the case when I first started loading them as I was getting visible shaving. Maybe I need to go more? On my 40 I'm getting no issues with leading, so yeah I probably have the dies setup wrong. Re: the bulge, it's very apparent. At lower charges it doesn't do it, but at the higher charges it does. Primers look ok to me. Maybe a touch flat at the higher charges, but nothing that had me super concerned, but the bulging was a concern. It looks just like a glock bulge from pics I've seen.

using 4g American Select with 147gr BBI coated bullets. 1.15-1.120 COL. I get a "glock bulge" firing these from my Taurus PT111 G2 Millenium pro. From my M&P9 they are fine. But I'm getting what I think is early leading as I say some "hairs" coming off of the rifling of the barrel. Plus some discoloration of the barrel as well. Cleaned guns really good, and all seems fine now. I'm guessing the load is a bit hot and possibly burning the coating from the coated bullets? I put some Green Dot in the same load otherwise and I don't get much of a bulge in the cases, but accuracy didn't seem as good. The AS loads were tack drivers. Sample size with green dot wasn't big though so maybe I had an off day or something. Green dot in my 40 loads seem very accurate. I've never messed with coated bullets so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong here. Crimp is light and just taking the bell out. I did have to adjust my expander to open up the cases a bit more as the coated bullets didn't want to sit as easily as the Xtreme 124 plated RN I was using prior. Is the glock bulge a sign of over pressure or since the chamber obviously is unsupported, will I just have that with some brass?

no chorno yet, but hot enough to "glock buldge" the unsupported chamber portion of my Taurus PT111. In my M&P9 the brass looks ok. Leading in both barrels.

So I managed to push my 9mm loads a bit too far. With 147gr BBI I got some leading after 30-40 rounds. I don't blame the bullets as I was pushing them too hard. So I tried what I have on hand. Hopes #9 bore cleaner, didn't do jack $hit. I've also had issues trying to remove copper fouling after shooting a lot of plated bullets, so Hopes just doesn't seem to work for me. I've heard some say foaming cleaners, or seafoam work well. I tried going to the box store and trying to find seafoam, but they have like 10 different seafoam products, most of which don't actually seem to foam up from what I can read off the bottles. Before I buy something I'll have to return, I would like to ask what you all use that works well and saves time. I spent a good while yesterday with the plastic bristle brush I bought for 9mm, and various patches and it's 90% as bad as it was before I started.

I adjusted my loop a touch more closed, maybe .003-.005. Also tried s&b primers which are softer than the Tulsa I was using. No ftf in small 50rnd test lot. I was getting one to two per mag with prior trigger loop adjustment. I feel its a combo of issues. Obviously the timing has changed at the sear release which can if not corrected cause the drag others have described. The old striker design seems more prone to the issue Harder primers in reloads. Maybe some others I'm not thinking of. The tolerance stacks start getting too far away from factory at any point and the system seems to loose its balance and hence function. Very interesting though that the trigger loop can be so sensitive to change. I guess I tend to think of guns as rougher tools/machines and not intricate machines like watches. I think a more jewlers mindset when I went at my trigger loop last time may have been the ticket instead of Bruno the barbarian. I didn't think I was adjusting too much based on videos I saw and thing I read, but I guess I was, seeming to overshoot on the corrections, either increasing or decreasing the gap. At least that's my two cents trying to sum up the situation from what others have stated.

Mine is still goobered. thought I had it but I'm getting light primer strikes and a rare failure to reset(dead trigger). I adjusted again last night, and it will be a work in progress, but the gun is NOT trustworthy any longer. Hopefully, I can tune it out, but if I cannot, the stock parts will be going back in. This has been a very frustrating experience and Apex needs WAYYYYY better videos and explanations in regards to the rationale on how different adjustment's of the loop effect different parts of the trigger. Giving more clarification in regards to if you adjust this too much X,Y, Z may happen etc... Very disappointed in that regard, at least for the videos I've watched etc...