brian45acp

I would think short FP spring is all

It must just be where I'm getting my brass. It's First Class Bullets and Brass. They have great deals but maybe the once fired isn't once fired. I have 2 pieces blazer 1 was 13 thousandths longer then the other. One real short and one long. Maybe this batch of brass came from someone who messed with it.

Yes I am with you and still havent entered my credit card to check out of Brownells, lol. I may do that but I hate to send off my top end and especially several of them. I would have Cajun Gun works do the job if it came to that. I am still wanting to confirm if I need to ream or not. Many CZ guys say dont do it so I want to know what brass they are using and how they havent had this problem. DWFAN: How could you throat but not change head space using a finish reamer?

I noticed with just 1 piece of brass in the crimp station (using FCD) or the sizing station the upstroke sort of pops. Its the brass being retained by the shell plate and as the die slides up the brass is being held in the shell plate causing the plate to flex and at the point the brass lets go of the die it pops back down. With all stations full I dont notice this any more.

For those who have not reamed their stock CZ barrel what brass are you guys using and what is your method? Buy new then clean and use for how many loads etc... I am asking because I am tossing back and forth the idea to ream my barrels. I cant possibly have several CZ's which wont chamber slightly long brass so before I make my decision I want to be sure there isnt something else I can change in my reloading regimen. In short I have confirmed for certain that any brass over .755 wont chamber reliably in my CZ's. I called Cajun Gun Works and the owner was awesome enough to talk to me a bit. He says they dont ream barrels typically and cant ever recall doing any 9mm and he has seen many more CZ's then any of us. With my bullet removed and brass sized I cant get the barrel to lock into the lugs if the brass is over .755. This is with the slide off and slipping the brass under the extractor. I am going to try this same test with the extractor out this weekend and double confirm whats going on but at this point if my head space was 5 thousandths longer I wouldnt have any more issues. I am positive its not the bullet hitting the rifling. So with that said the once fired bulk brass I am buying may be crap. I cant imagine you guys are buying new brass all the time so there is something I am missing here. I dont want to modify my chambers until I know for certain its the only choice. Please help me out with some sources for brass. I have really enjoyed not picking up brass and tumbling it but perhaps I need to buy quality brass and get back into that. Seems easier to ream the barrel once but with many of you guys saying DONT I want to find out what I can change instead. Thanks

I figured I would get the Manson reamer. What did you have in mind? And to be sure I am buying the proper tool I am getting the finish reamer from Manson. I understand a throating reamer tapers the rifling so I am guessing that is a separate tool. My issue is the length of the brass so I think my choice in a finish reamer is correct. I did have to shorten my OAL for my particular JHP but I dont really mind that. In other words I wouldnt be reaming my barrel if it was something in my reloads I could change instead. I saw a post from a guy using a brand new manson reamer who scratched his rifling. Any tips on how to avoid messing up. I know not to turn it backwards and use very light pressure and even lighter pressure and I come up on the final turn to finish it off.

good tips. I like the idea better of light pressure to get it going then more to begin the cut and finish with light to smooth it out Any risk in the thing not sitting perfectly flush? They are said to have a pilot but I am not sure how that works but I sure hope it keeps it from cutting at an angle. Steve RA: Thanks for that. I think my barrel is right at the limit. I am not sure I can measure it because the brass sticks above the barrel hood so it wont give me an accurate chamber length reading. All I know is with several pieces of brass I measured them all and as soon as I get to .755 it starts feeling gritty to lock the barrel up and beyond .755 it just wont go. This of course with the slide off and just slipping the barrel forward out the end and then the brass under the extractor and then pulling the barrel back onto the brass. At that point when the brass is not in the chamber I try to press the barrel up into the lugs and it wont lock in. OK guys I think I got this. Last question: Ream the barrel on my ccw CZ? I figure once I figure out how to do this right it could only aid in reliability. I havent had any factory ammo hand the slide up but since CZ chambers seem to be exactly at the minimum length for maximum brass length bad things could happen if 1 round happens to be over .754

I want to be sure I have this down and there isnt a learning lesson at the end, lol. 1) extractor out and place barrel in a vise facing vertically 2) attach the T handle 3) oil the heck out of the reamer and throat then drop it into place 4) I was told to back turn it just a smidge then clockwise so that it would bite in. While holding both ends with 2 hands make 1 full turn. So if handle is at 3 and 9 I turn it until one side makes it all the way around and is back to where it started 5) the weight of the tool for pressure but not much more then that 6) make a turn then measure the depth with my calipers or selected brass as a test fit 7) use the go and no go to confirm all is happy and good 8) use my longest brass piece in the chamber and slip it up the breech face to lock the barrel into the lugs. 9) confirm with my calipers my start and finish is about 5 thousandths or what ever amount may be needed How can it remove a perfect amount so that there isnt some material left at the start and end point. In other words it bites in and as you turn it removes metal back to the starting point and you stop. At the point you stop I dont know how it could be a perfect flush circle and not have a high spot.

I think I follow you guys. Now that I identified this issue I measured the brass and know which ones will fit and which won't. I simply plan to take the longest one I found which is .758 and ream my barrel to just chamber it. With the advice you guys gave me a few thousandth past that should be perfect. These gauges I don't see telling me much. A piece of brass at .758 that just chambers is still a short chamber vs a glock. I suppose the no go would confirm I didn't go too far. I like doing things properly and perfect so it seems these may be good tools to have. My buddy was saying to use the back of the calipers as a depth gauge to the headspace and barrel hood. If I know a start and and finish I know I increased it just a little like 5 thousandths and I'm good. So how long is the go gauge? Is it short or long? In other words if it were say max length .758 that would be helpful as I could use it to just fit plus a little and the check with the no go that I didn't to too far. And to confirm, the advice was to remove my extractor? I am not sure how it stays centered and cuts evenly. I figure I would understand once I get it in hand. I want to be sure I do this right. Any thought on doing this to my CCW gun or not?i figure these chambers are so short it would be a reliability increase to assure all my ammo feeds. New ammo seems to be fine but I do practice with my reloads. It's funny that cz must use min length chambers and glock max. The cz is so sensitive to brass length and either I'm crazy or have figured this out to where others haven't. I hear propel ream their cz barrels often but many don't. I imagine its all what type brass you are using. I love using once fired and leaving it behind. No more tumbling and picking it up. If I bought new brass it all stretches with resizing so at some point my same issues would return hence I think reaming is the best choice. By the way I can't thank you all enough. It's awesome to have help from real people and not the average forum idiots like the other forums. Thanks so much for this help

I'm just trying to understand what it will do for me. My plan is to make a turn of the reamer and check until the longer brass will chamber and barrel locks up. We are talking like 3-5 thousandths is all. If these gauges are of good use I don't mind getting them but I fell like one will tell me my chamber is good with the no go and the other go will tell me a perfect OAL is good. I pretty much already know this. Maybe if I understand how to use them I can see the benefit.

Yeah that's what I figured. I honestly think this would increase reliability and actually be a good idea even on my CCW gun. I still don't know about this no go thing. Is the link I put what I need? You mentioned one allows slide to close the other doesn't. So I need 2 types of these? http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/headspace-gauges/go-no-go-gauge-sets-prod26876.aspx Do you think removing 5 thousandths is still necessary to get these gauges? I'm just finish reaming a tiny bit until the longer brass clears and that's all.

If max length is .756 It means my chambers are all short it it won't chamber. I'm sort of undecided here. I could buy better brass but I don't think that will fix this 100%. Any time I get one slightly over .754 it's going to prevent the barrel from locking up and jam the gun. On the other hand why arent more people talkin about doing this? All my CZ are the same and brass at .756 won't chamber unless I slam it in there and the the slide sticks to eject it. I'm considering buying once fires nickel brass so that I know it's all good quality. I would have to buy all the crap along with it to start tumbling again but I don't so much mind that of its the best option. I guess what I need to understand is if there is any harm in altering the chamber? I could consider only doing this on my competition guns which are 2 of them. My carry guns will be function tested and see very light use. Since I carry premimium duty ammo I know it works just fine.

Ok so I am going to get a list going: Rimless Pistol Cartridge, 9mm Luger Finisher Mfr Part: F9MMLUGB http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/reamers/centerfire-reamers/rimless-pistol-cartridges-prod40866.aspx http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/taps-dies/tapping-cutting-fluids/universal-do-drill-prod1120.aspx Which one do I need? Looks like the manson reamer is 3/8 shank and this T handle goes up to 1/2 inch so I think thats the right one. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/taps-dies/tap-die-wrenches/tap-wrenches-prod6882.aspx 395-312-088WB Tap Wrench Wrench No. 1, 9 1/4" long, fits 0 to 1/2" Mfr Part: 12088 http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/headspace-gauges/clymer-headspace-gauges-no-go-prod40876.aspx 184-100-341WB NO GO, 9mm Luger Mfr Part: NG9MMLUG

You guys are great: So now I need to understand this no/go gauge. I am not sure what it is or how to use it. Is there a link for this thing? Dont forget that these CZ barrels dont use a hood like any other gun I have seen. The hood sits below the brass and keys up into the breech face which has a raised area above the level of where the firing pin area is. This wont change much in terms of the reaming process but going too far would screw up the intention of this design. I am confident that just 5 thousandths or less would fix all this drama.

So it seems reaming is the answer. I do agree though as to why this doesn't come up more. I do see many threads on the cz forum about reaming and seems it's split between those who do and don't. Based on what I'm seeing the brass needs to head space 5 thousandths deeper to be on the safe side for reliability on mixed brass. Can this really be safely done by hand? I may just pack all 5 slides and barrels up then send to the Cajun crew and be done with it. This crap drives me nuts and I can't help but appreciate glock but there is nothing nice about them. The cz is a dream to run in competition and even with it being stock down to even stock springs. I got rid of all my tumbling stuff and love buying once fired cleaned brass. I can shoot and leave it behind and not deal with running around like a crack head fighting for it. With these rakes and rollers people use they snatch it up as it ejects from the gun. I hate fighting with them over it. So you guys already linked me to the reamer. My buddy showed me the T handles from harbor freight. For oil do I need anything special? For 5 barrels I think I should learn to do this and just take care of it. I wish I had a video of it on a pistol barrel though.

Well thats exactly my thought that since we arent hearing about this its something on my end which I have yet to nail down. Head stamp doest seem to matter and is random so its not narrowed to this. I think max OAL is .754 so as soon as I get brass right there or just over I see the issue come up. With the slide off I slip these rounds under the extractor and try to lock the barrel up and cases at .757 wont go. These are out of spec obviously so I am not sure this means much but they do drop in the glock barrel. The solution to ream out 5 CZ barrels doesnt seem like the logical choice to me. Especially with the Cajun Gun Works crew say they never had to do this over the last 5 years which means lots of examples. I am stuck on this idea of the brass being too long but perhaps there is something else I am not observing. I hope I am making sense here in explaining whats going on. As a round begins to chamber its slides under the extractor and the head stamp slides up the breech face. During this time the barrel is angles upward and the barrel lugs lock up to the slide lugs. Right at the point where the lock up should occur mine wont go any further. With brass that is .750 it locks up fine but I still feel a little resistance. The lock is so tight an tolerances so close perhaps this contributes to the accuracy these guns have but its giving me a fit for slightly out of spec brass. At the point the barrel sticks and wont lock up I tried flexing the extractor a bit to see if it helped and it did not so I dont think the extractor is to blame here. Since all my CZs do the same thing honestly it cant be the guns. I even took my gun smith hammer and tapped the bullet very short and then ran the round in the LEE FCD as to be sure the bullet wasnt the issue for OAL. Everything case gauges just fine and will feed in the glock. I could at this point buy all new starline brass and I would at least know the history of it and if the issue goes away then I know the brass I was getting is the issue. Im stumped here guys. I think its the brass and sitting here playing with the guns isnt getting me any where. I dont have a depth gauge to measure the head space.

I'm positive. I removed the bullet from the brass to be sure and still it won't lock up. I spent more time tonight on this and found more brass which is too long and out of spec. The chamber is so short each round has to be quite perfect. I am scared to mess with this myself but guys at our local match are gunsmiths and build open guns etc. I know he can ream it for me but I feel like I need to send it to Cajun gun works to have it done right. It would be about $60 per gun and I have 5. Another option is to buy better brass but it doesn't mean one piece won't be too long and cause the same issue again.

thanks. I did read that one already. I am some what confident its not a gun issue. 4 CZs all doing the same thing on the same round mean it cant be the gun. Im buyinf once fired bulk brass and its all mixed up. I think there is just some crap in there. I need to go inspect a few more cases which dont fit and see whats going on. CZ does have a short chamber but its not like this is a must do modification so I dont know for certain what to do.

They asked me that and its new and I havent added a extra power spring or anything. I could take the extractor out and hit sides with 1500 paper to be sure there is nothing hanging it up. I figured I had to take it out and I wanted to touch up the breech face a little as well with the 1500. If it is a brass issue this would fix anything but it cant hurt.

I talked to cajun gun works guys and got some good info. Apparently even if I did need to ream the barrel its not something to do by hand. In my case I would need just 3-5 thousandths off and by hand that isnt going to be so easy. More importantly they never had to ream a 9mm CZ so i have some other issue going on likely with the brass. I need to investigate this more and go tinker in the garage. What ever the issue is my glocks take the rounds my cz wont which is frustrating and gratifying to my glock loving buddies.

This is what I did. Took the round which didn't fit and pulled the bullet and tried using just the brass. I couldn't get the barrel to lock up with the longer piece of brass. How could 3 of my CZs all do this? You guys are using cz and I don't hear of them all having to real the barrel. Would polishing the breech face help at all? The longer bras drags badly on the breech face as the barrel slips upward to lock into the lugs. Those pics are with no bullet and just sized brass. So is there something I'm missing or do I need to finish ream all my CZs ?

Awesome, thank you. I have not used one but am not the average idiot so with some research I will figure it out. As for the pilot I understand this centers it in the barrel as to cut evenly but here on that tool is this pilot? Also when others say throat vs ream which would be what I need? Seems I need to remove some material to lengthen the head spacing. If my brass is sticking out too far after it head spaces then I'm guessing this is reaming the barrel. My bullets aren't the issue and aren't touching the rifling. It's the brass that's too long due to short chamber.

Could you be so kind to link me to it. There are so many it's confusing. I need to make some calls to the cz gunsmiths and confirm this before I go cutting on the barrel but I'm quite sure this is my issue. I found this in my reasearch http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=309_71&products_id=1071&zenid=lestrr6kn6jmlr54bleni7klp2

Can someone please link me to best 9mm finish reamer to buy. Also any good article or video on a how to. I hear it's not too hard and I have friends that know how to do this but I would like to study up on it myself. Basically my cz barrles are just a tad short and brass on the longer side is causing the barrel to not slide up and lock into the lugs. This has been driving me nuts chasing reloading and ammo issues and finally I figured this out. In short what happens is that the rounds all pass the plunk test but know fed from the mag lock the slide up and it won't go into battery. I narrowed this down to the brass and found 2 of the same head stamps one of which will chamber one won't. The difference is one is on the shorter side of spec the other is 15 thousandths longer and prevent the barrel from locking up. A cz barrel has the brass hang out over the barrel hood so I don't need to remove but maybe 5-10 thousandths is all. On the rami it uses a traditional barrel like a glock and I can see the brass hang over the barrel good which it shouldn't on that setup. For these reasons my options are ream the barrel or hand pick brass that is not at max length of .755 which gives me the issues. Anything under .750 seems to be fine but a little filth in the chamber may change that so reaming makes sense to me at this point. Any help would be appreciated.

Well I will say that the brass that is longer is with in spec and is .755 long. Seems my CZ has a chamber which is right on the edge of accepting brass which is near the top end of acceptable lengths.