Ryan N
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Posts posted by Ryan N
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OK, I measured between the hook and disconnector on both shotguns with feeler gauges and best I can tell I have .013" clearance on the new(doubles) trigger group and .006" on my older trigger group. I plan to look at removing a little metal as Tom has described.
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I reinstalled the GB today. Come to find out to perfectly align the GB port with the barrel port I had to space the GB .045" from the shoulder. The port in my barrel is .080". I originally had the ports pretty drastically misaligned.
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Well I am NOT sticking up for anyone, and some of this sounds excessive, but almost all gas "blocks" leak. It is darn hard to seal 50,000 psi!!! Clamp on blocks do pretty good. Pinned blocks a la "G.I." do alright, and set screws through the bottom leak a bit, BUT if the carbine is functioning 100% what does it matter???
My concern is that all the sudden when I was shooting this rifle I would end up with a lot of carbon on the inside of my hand(forward hand). It had never done this in the past and then all the sudden it started.
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Based on the parts that have been swapped, and the continuation of the problem, I would almost wager money that the gap between the disconnector and the trigger hook is too big. Here is a picture of the issue. What happens in this case is that the hammer is releasing from the disconnector before the primary trigger hook is positioned to catch the hammer. If the timing is marginal, it won't show up unless recoil is included in the mix. If severe, the hammer will fall during bench testing when the trigger is reset very slowly. The correct fix is to remove a TINY amount of metal from the two little tabs that the disconnector rests against, allowing the disconnector to travel further forward. If you go too far, our replacement disconnector has a little tail on the bottom that allows a set screw to adjust the distance between the hooks (second picture)
I would be happy to help if needed, but it is fixable without a gunsmith. Test as follows:
Remove trigger group from gun. Cock the hammer, and disengage the safety. The hammer will be engaged on the primary (trigger) hook. Now, if you push the hammer further back by hand, the rear hammer hook should have basically no clearance as it passes the disconnector hook when the trigger is at rest. It is, in fact, OK if the hammer brushes against the disconnector a little bit, as long as it doesn't catch. If there is a visible gap between the hammer and the disconnector when you push the hammer past it, THAT IS THE PROBLEM. If it looks like the first picture, the gun will double from time to time. Let me know what you find out
Tom
Awesome Tom. So I'm looking for the hammer to at least brush the disconnector a little bit when pushing the hammer back and the trigger is not being pulled... right?
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It must be normal to blow carbon out the side hole. LOL.
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Great points about the gas block placement. I will pay special attention to it when I reinstall it. I'm a machinist and should have thought about the linear placement of it.
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Got this response today. I called and arranged payment. A photo I took shows that gasblock was indeed up against the shoulder. I wasn't aware that was a no no. Here is the message:
"Your Gas Block has been inspected. We will need you to call our office to arrange payment for return shipping. Joe was unable to find anything wrong with your Gas Block but he did replace all the components of the adjustment system. It does look as though you may have your gas block positioned with the back of the block up against the shoulder, this can cause gas to leak. Please be sure to space it .025 from the shoulder when you re-install the Gas Block."
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Installing a hammer from my other M3000 didn't solve the problem. I had 2 double fires within 75 rounds yesterday. Not certain what my next step will be since Benelli already said they replaced the disconnector.
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I compared the old disconnector to the new one and the old one was not machined sufficiently. The new one was.
Which disconnector did you purchase? MOA, Benelli, or Stoeger?
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Finally got around to swapping g hammers. Here is a side by side comparison between a hammer thst is good (marked "O") and the hammer from the problem fcg. They pretty much look the same to me. Being that Benelli said they replaced the disconnecter, I thought the hammer would be the next thing. I have now replaced the hammer from my older m3000. Will try it out at a match on Sat.
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I'm certain that my GB hasn't always leaked carbon deposits onto my hand. Something has changed that is now causing the gas to blow onto the inside of my hand. I hope that Syrac gets to the bottom of it. They were regarded as a great company when I bought the GB last year.
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I'm the OP and the shooter in the OP video. No doubt that I was surprised by the shot between reloads but in my mind I still had my rifle shouldered and I felt like the shot was released just to the right of the target. I got no call to stop and so I proceeded. There was some debate between RO's after ULSC and one of the RO's said they should have called it when it happened and therefor didn't DQ me. We watched the video and I was surprised to see how things looked a little different from what my mind was telling me happened.
Things like this can happen pretty quickly and we don't have the chance to review a video when making the call. No doubt that we should err on the side of safety but I also think we should give the shooter the benefit of the doubt when its questionable. Sometimes there is a fine line between the two and being knowledgeable about the current rules of the game will help making calls accurately.
I appreciate the feedback and I would like to think in the future that I will stop myself in the event that I have something like this happen.
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Guess it may impact whether he will offer to replace it, or refund your cost if you decide to go with a SLR.
Suspect Brownells would allow you to trade it in for a SLR, after adding/subtracting price difference.
No expert here, but a clamp on style should eliminate any leakage between block and barrel. Maybe Joe would be willing to replace the set screw version you are sending in with a clamp on style.
Gotcha.
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Does he know you purchased the gas block from Brownells?
I don't think I mentioned it. Why do you ask?
Joe at Syrac got back with me today and said that some leakage between the GB and barrel is normal for all set screw type blocks but that the leak from the side of the block is not. He suspects that the detent screw may have come out. I plan to send it back to them when I get an RMA.
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I got the following message from Joe at Syrac today, I sent the photos that I posted above.
"Hi Ryan,
I couldn't go to photo bucket and view the pictures. Gas should not be leaking out of the gas block. You have the option to send us back the gas block for further review or Send us pictures directly. If you are wanting to send the block in for review please send me your bill to and ship to address, contact number, and the exact block you have so I can issue you an RMA.
Thank you,
Vice President
Joe Lim"
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I haven't had a chance to mess with this this weekend. Now that I know what to expect from Syrac, I may remove it and dig a little deeper myself. Heck, I bought it from Brownells and they have superb CS but I don't want them to get stuck with it either. I may call them (Brownells) and see what they say. Never know they may tell me to return it to them and they will deal with Syrac.
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I installed this Syrac GB last year some time and have ~1200 through it since installing, I recently began noticing black residue on the inside of my hand that I place on the handguard. I'm not having any cycling issued with the rifle but it seems obvious to me that gas is leaking from the SG. It looks to me like its coming out of the lower left side hole. But then it also looks like there are signs of leakage on the forward part of the gas tube, forward and aft of the GB(on the barrel). This doesn't seem normal to me. Any ideas about this? I appreciate any suggestions.
I sent this same message and photos to Syrac to see what they say.
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That's good to know. But Benelli has supposedly done that on mine. I wish I had marked the parts.
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I shot ~50 rounds in a match today and had 3 double fires. Problem isn't fixed. According to Benelli, they replaced the disconnector. So I plan to swap hammers in my two M3000's and see what happens. I kind of hope its the hammer in which case I'll purchase a Benelli hamer.
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3GN rules were in play at this match.
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Thanks to everyone for giving your thoughts.
I'm seeing that I let my finger slip into trigger guard and touch the bang switch. It appears that it happened right when I was pulling my mag from my belt. Obviously, the RO didn't stop me and even though I was caught off guard, I moved on and finished the stage. The RO and score keeper were debating the DQ after ULSC and I argued that I had not began my reload and that the bullet impact was down range into the berm. We watched this video together and I accepted my wrong doing after seeing the vid. But they let it slide because the RO said he should have stopped me and it was the last stage anyway.
This give me a reason to practice rifle reloading(something that I seldom do).
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First time I have ever had this happen. I went for a mandatory rifle reload and squeezed off a round before releasing the mag. I was baffled by this because I feel I'm very safety conscience. A close inspection of video shows that it looks like my finger slipped off the mag release after I removed my hand from the handgaurd.
I'm curious to hear if someone else has a different opinion of what I'm seeing.I'm also curious if you think this should be a DQ or not. There was some debate. The round went in a safe direction and I think the only argument is that the round went off "during a reload. When does a reload start?
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Got it back today. I like a letter stating what they did. Cudos to Benelli/Stoeger. Here is what is stated:
"12-28-15 - Replaced disconnector and mag spring retainer. Reshaped extractor cut. Test fired SuperX 3", AA, Rio, Remington 2 3/4". No malfunctions. MTM"
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I went to the range with 75 rounds of mixed shells. I gave the plate rack a nice workout and was beginning to think that the double firing issue was in my head after I got through the second box. But toward the end of the 3rd box, it doubled.
I plan to send it off on Monday. I appreciate everyone's input on this.
The awesome thing is that this thing ate 75 rounds of mostly range pick up ammo from the 3G ProAm (I worked the Pro SG stage). So, there was a vast array of shells with zero issues other than the double fire.
M3000 double firing
in Shotgun - Technical
Posted
I can get a .013" feeler gage between the disconnecter and rear hammer spur.