Ray R.

Yep, training does have benifits. There's a big difference between being uncertain about what you can do, and knowing you can do something. Not to mention that having done something before is a great confidence builder.

I've talked this over with other shooters who feel that way, and I "think?" I have an answer as to why it happens like that. When I'm shooting well I have pretty much the same feeling j1b writes about, although many times I feel like I'm in slow motion, only to find out after the run I was anythin but. However, I have no sense of time actually slowing down. Why? I think its because most targets in handgun shooting are at rest. In order to get that old "time slows down" feeling we have to have something outside of ourselves moving. To go back to the baseball analagy, when watching a pitcher fron the on-deck circle you see how quickly he comes to the plate and how fast the pitch is. But when you're hitting, suddenly his release is slowed and the ball isn't moving as fast. Ergo, time appears to slow down as there is movement in real time for us to judge things by. In shooting we only have ourselves moving, and since we can't "see" that, we have no reference to judge by.

Yeah! Amazing though, how easy it is to simply miss seeing that "little pointy thing," even though its always in the same place at the end of the gun.

I agree with what Duane wrote-- partially. I agree that the brain suddenly begins processing information at a faster rate giving the impression that time is slowing down. But it also processes information selectively. Information coming in from the senses that is of no use is simply ignored, while that information necessary to the task at hand is given exclusive consideration. At the same time, the brain forces the body to do things it normally couldn't do. It gets stronger, faster, and less aware of extraneous stimuli i.e. we don't see things that are well within our vision or hear certain things we would normally hear. Put it all together, and someone in this state is going operate at (personal) peak efficiency for the time being. And while it does seem that it affects people in different ways, perhaps we react according to what we have come to believe is the best way. Much here to study....

Shawn, I've worked with Trailboss in quite a few calibers, but not in 38 short colt. Because it's so bulky, I doubt that you can get enough in the case to make 120 power factor. My IMR manual shows a max charge of 1.7 grains with a 135 grain bullet at only 526 f/s, and doesn't show pressure data for this cartridge. I tried using this powder to make major in the 45 acp, but couldn't get enough in the case either. Good powder when used within its narrow parameters though. Ray

What Mike is talking about is called Tackypsychia. It is the normal response to "fight or flight." I doubt it can be induced at will, but as everybody who has engaged in lots of sports knows, there are times when a mild episode takes place. (In baseball, hitters call it "being in the zone," where the baseball looks as big as a kitten ball and seem to float toward the plate. Fielders get it too, when pop ups seem to hang in mid air giving them all sorts of time to float under them and make the catch). Given that, it might be possible to train the brain to induce such a mild episode to a given particular non-dangerous situation that causes mild stress. If so, it could be one way of improving performance on demand. If anybody figures out how to do this, I'd like to hear about it.

Time doesn't slow down for anyone for any reason. What happens is that under certain conditions (such as stress) humans can do more things in the same amount of time. They move faster, and process more information in a given block of time. That gives the impression that everything is suddenly happening in slow motion. If this happens to you while you're shooting a match, enjoy it. You probably are shooting as well as you possibly can.

What guns? I didn't see no damn guns!!!!!!

Yep, the load does make some noise. And I don't think anybody would want to catch one, even with a catchers mitt. Seriously, I kind of stumbled on to this load when playing with Trail Boss. The powder is amazing when used within its parameters. In fact, its the first powder to come along in some time that is truely innovative. We could use some innovation across the board powder-wise.... Interestingly, this is not an "out of bounds" load for revolvers. Many black powder revolvers had such pedestrian velocities without any problems because black powder filled the case and was easy to ignite. Trail Boss is much the same, being easily the bulkiest powder on the market. Strange though, that this approach works so well with a cartridge designed for smokeless powder. I guess we are coming full circle.

I've used Clays for years in my 12 guage guns. Why? Because without a doubt its the cleanest shotgun powder available. I shoot 7/8 oz. loads for skeet and five stand sporting. I run this load about 1300 f/s, and it functions just fine in my Benelli. If you check the Hodgdon data, you will find quite a few 7/8 oz. loads both slower and faster then the one I'm using. I also use 8.5 shot as it gives me almost the same pellet count as a 1 oz. load of 8's, and hits a bit harder at longer ranges than no. 9 shot. As for cold weather problems with Clays, I've never experienced them. I do know that certain wads can cause problems in cold weather as several of my friends have had trouble with a particular brand, and the manufacturer has admitted the problem and is working to correct it. (I use the Claybuster pink wad for 7/8 oz. loads. AA12Sl equivalent). If you load 7/8 oz loads, you might want to stick to a case like Winchester AA because of it's smaller internal dimentions, as opposed to a case like the Federal.

Ranger's right. A lot of these games are local, and even though they may be similer to others played elsewhere, they may go by different names. At my club they play a game called "Chinese Skeet" which is similer to what ranger called "SCRATCH." Shoot trap targets from skeet stations beginning at station 1, and shooter shoots until he breaks two targets IN A ROW before moving to the next station. Each shooter is allowed only 25 rounds of ammo, and the one getting farthest around the skeet field wins. (There's usually a bet on the line too....) "Annie Oakley" is a trap shooting universal though, I believe. Any old trap shooter should be able to tell you how this is played.

I think you made a good call. .004 end shake is excessive, and .011 barrel/cylinder gap is too large by my standards. One of the things I'm hearing about S&W revolvers is that a lot of them are leaving the factory with excessive and/or very un-even barrel/cylinder gaps. Not good. Am also seeing a lot of rough forcing cones.

I agree with LPatterson, you can't make major with Trail Boss. You can't get enough in a 45 acp case to do the job, while at the same time you are running past prescribed limits. Trail Boss is great for steel and ICORE loads though, as it fills the case well, lights up easily, and burns clean at very low pressure. Here's some data from my 5" 625 with a 200 grain cast swc: 3.0 grains 573 f/s 3.3 " 593 f/s 3.5 " 614 f/s With a 230 grain cast RN, 3.2 grains of Trail Boss does 545 f/s and a power factor of 125. This load is accurate and clean. Note though, that I DO NOT recommend any of these loads for a jacketed bullet! Because of their low velocity, jacketed bullets may stick in the barrel due to increased friction.

Wanted, Your 231 load will knock down plates just fine. But it won't make major. For that you'll have to toss another 0.5 grains or so in the case if you use the same bullet. Best bet is to find someone with a chronograph and run a few different loads over the screens. That way you'll know what your gun will do, and where you're at. Each load/bullet combination varies enough gun to gun, that its almost impossible to predict velocity. You've got to test to really know.

dgarrity, Can I use your guns? I can pick them up on Tuesday at 12:30 pm. at Rhodys.

Here's a list of things you can do that will help right away: 1] If it doesn't have a checkered front strap, get some skateboard tape and apply it after thourghly de-greasing the area. Some say skateboard tape is too rough, but here's a little tip-- once the tape is applied, go over it with some #400 wet-or-dry to knock off some of the sharpness. 2] Change out the mag release with a Nowlin that is 1/8" longer, and has a lighter spring. 3] When you order the new mag release from Brownells, have them toss in a cheap mag well that is held on by the grips. 4] Strip the gun and look for burrs in the mag well-- especially at the top of the cut out for the grip safety. 5] Get some mag bumper pads. I like the Ed Brown ones. 6] Shoot the gun a lot, and make certain it functions with the loads you intend to use. If it doesn't, find out why. 7] If the trigger doesn't suit you, and you can't do the necessary work, have it done. 8] Enjoy!

I've been following this thread with interest, and would like to add a few things for what its worth.... 1] Taylor throating will USUALLY improve the accuracy of a revolver, but not always. It will sometimes reduce fliers IF the fliers are the result of a problem in that portion of the barrell. 2] Any increase in accuracy from Taylor throating is most noticable at longer distances, say from 75 to 100 yards. Handguns used for hunting can sometimes be made acceptably accurate this way, but most good guns can be made acceptabaly accurate by other means and with good loads. It would be a very rare marksman indeed who can tell the differance between a gun that will shoot 4.5 inch groups at 100 yards, and a gun the will do 2.5 inches in the field. 3] Peening the cylinder notches is probably not a good idea, as it is not a reliable way to bring about cylinder/barrell alignment. And it can actually make things much worse. A cylinder that does not lock up tightly usually will give acceptable accuracy, and in some cases accuracy will actually improve as the lock-up loosens! 4] Assuming that barrell/cylinder alignment is acceptable, there are three other places to look for accracy/flier problems: a) Chamber and chamber throats. Most new S&W 45acp revolvers have tight cylinder throats as opposed to the older models. This usually works with jacketed bullets, but doesn't work as well with cast bullets that are uaually .452" diameter. Opening up the throats to .4525" will usually decrease group size and reduce fliers. ("Hard" cast bullets usually shoot better than "soft" bullets). Chambers on 625's are usually not very tight, adding to the problem. The reason is that the shooter wants to load six at a time, and truely tight chambers would make that difficult. But for ultimate accuracy, tight chambers are a must. For his reason, 45acp revolver seldom give gilt edged accuracy. b)Forcing cone. Many 625's I've seen have rough forcing cones that are cut a bit over maximum. Setting the barrell back a turn and re-cutting will help cut down the number of fliers, but this particular fix is usually not worth the effort, as the guns are acceptably accurate enough for their intended purpose. c) Barrell. The barrels on most present production 625's are smooth, tight, and right. However, if one is really plagued with fliers, fire lapping might help. d) Oh, yes-- check the muzzle just on the outside chance that there might be nicks, burrs, or an un-even cut. Set up correctly, a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt (or any other revolver using "normal" revolver ammo)will almost always out shoot any 45acp revolver due to the loose chamber throats and long jump to the forcing cone inherent in the design. You can't have everything....

Gentlemen, If its any help, for plinking and ICORE, I use a 230 gr. hard cast round nose ahead of 3.2 grains of Trail Boss with a Federal primer. Heavy taper crimp. This load does about 550 f/s in my 5" 625. Power factor is 126. Burns clean, and this powder fills the case nicely. (Tried making "major" with this powder, but can't get enough in the case). The same bullet ahead of 4.5 grains of Bullseye will make major. Big plus for the heavy round nose is how easy it drops into the chambers on a re-load.

I'm new to this forum, but not new to hunting deer with a handgun. Over the past years I've killed 40 deer with revolvers in .357 mag., .44 mag, 45 Colt, and the 45 acp 625. So I think I know a little about it. First off, the 45 acp doesn't always work properly with jacketed hollow points due to lack of velocity. So I would recommend cast bullets of the flat point variety or a good semi-wadcutter. Something in the 250 to 260 grain weight range. At 1000 f/s muzzle velocity they will always penetrate completely, and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a .44 mag and a 45 acp out to about 75 yards. For what it's worth, the load I use is one of the above mentioned bullets ahead of 13 to 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 and a Federal primer. Work up to this load carefully, but any 625 in good condition should handle it. Don't recommend this load in a semi-auto though....