MickB
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Posts posted by MickB
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Remove your mag clamp and take the mag tube off, leaving the barrel nut in place.
Crank down the barrel nut. Now put the mag tube on and turn it down till it just stops. Back off a fraction. Now put the mag clamp back in place and go shoot the gun.
If you put the mag tube on first, then screw the assembly with nut on, you may well not be able to tighten the nut down far enough, causing your barrel to be loose. A sysmptom of this will be a loose hand guard.
Mick
just be sure what are you calling barrel slop? The build up or something else. if it the build up when your gun comes back do not even shot it and give the JB and drill treatment. the reciepe really calls for friz medal polish but i use JB polish and have at least 200 rounds in it and no build up. ands fatrly clean!
I really used the wrong word to describe the issue. What I meant was, with the mag clamp off and the mag extension tight the barrel has right to left play. It is a good 1/16th of an inch. This causes the barrel vent to be around 5*deg off center of the receiver. You can rotate the barrel and get it to line up with the receiver, then clamp down the Mag Clamp. It will stay for about 3 rounds fired then it reverts back to its natural position which is clocked 5*deg right. I think the actual issue is that the vent rib on my barrel is not in the right location in relation to the gas tubes at the bottom of the barrel. When the gas tubes slide into the grooves of the receiver, they have a natural position they want to sit. I think at this point the gun is going back to Remington..
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A drop of blue loctite on the clamp screws.
Also a drop of blue loctite on the screws of the other version as well!
Mick
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Go with the Original JP. The gunsmithing required is minimal. I have only ever had the fit the trigger to the safety once in the dozen or so I have installed. A sixteenth of a turn of the adjustment screw can make a difference between having to fit to the safety or not. By far the most labour intensive part is timing the disconnector. My method is to put 800 grit paper on a flat surface and take 2-3 swipes on the nose of the disconnector till it times properly. The time comes from having to refit the disconnector a few times.
For the hammer, if you have a rounded profile stock hammer, try cutting the tail off first to match the profile of the JP hammer. You might be surprised at the results.
Mick
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Interesting. Maybe a bad batch has gotten out? Seems this is not the first question about vent ribs not being straight.
Mine is straight and I don't have the barrel rotation issues you are describing.
So far so good for me. I still need to check POI with slugs, however. I will report back on mine tomorrow...
Mick
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is not headpsace on an AR set at the barrel, rather than the bolt?
That being the case, would not a bolt that is fine in one barrel and not another indicate a problem with the barrel?
Mick
I would buy the headspaced bolt. I've seen several AR's that come improperly headspaced. The only way to fix it is to swap bolts until you find the right combo. Generally most bolts will work in most rifles. But not always. If the bolt doesn't add a lot to the price, and it shouldn't, you might as well do it right the first time. Do you have headspace gauges? If not this is good way to avoid buying a set.
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Many thanks to Keith and Kurt for testing out the prototype end caps!
I will be doing further testing this weekend at the upcoming Rio Salado 3 gun match.
The end caps not working loose was probably due to a last minute modification to the internal design to allow the end cap to seat more efficiently against the tube.
Mick
I've put 500 rounds of bird shot, 50 buck and 50 slugs over the +2 extention. No problems to report, no malfuctions using a Nordic spring. The cool part is that the cap does not work its way loose over extended shooting!
I think it is a winner. Thanks Mick!
Keith Garcia
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How is a 1.5" XXL end cap going to add 2 extra shells? I think you mean the XXL cap will make the 22" barrel hold 9+1.
Mick
Awesome, thank you.
From my readings I could not tell if it was just true for the 9+1's,
or also true for the 8+1.
Appreciate the info.
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What is the barrel length and capacity?
Mick
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With the VM Tactical, you are pretty much ready to go out of the box. Basically weld (C-rums) or dehorn the lifter and you are pretty much ready to shoot. With the M2, you will have to buy the mag tube, clamp, etc...
The Versa Max also seems to shoot softer than the M2.
Mick
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With the cost of 6.8 ammo, you are better off getting a 5.56 upper and calling it good...
Mick
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Wolff sells a 45" spring on their site, but I cannot find it at Brownell's or Midway.
Midway and Brownell's sell the Nordic 45" spring as does, well, Nordic!
Mick
I'd like to know as well. I can only find "extended" tube springs on Brownells and Wolff's website for capacities of 6-7 rounds total. Nothing for 9-11 round tubes.
The Nordic webiste lists their spring at 45 inches "so you can cut the length to fit your tube". Thinking about it, the ID on any of these extension mag tubes will have to match up with the ID of the factory tube. So any of them should have the same internal dimensions. Which would mean any spring should fit any manufacturer's tube. At $8 for a mag spring, I think I can afford to try one of these and if it doesn't work in my Choate tube, I'll try to find something else.
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Pro Bore chokes are different than Rem Chokes. The two do not interchange...
Mick
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The Versa Max takes Pro Bore chokes. Best prices are at CDNN ($10 ea).
Mick
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I have never seen the clear DPMS tube, but I think it is telling that no other manufacturer has gone this route. Carbon fibre might be a solution, but at what cost compared to aluminium?
Here in Phoenix, all of the matches I have been to have the "8+1" start rule, after that no restriction. I have only been to a single match in Tucson that had the "8rd tube only" rule.
The concept behind the +1 and +2 end caps was to be able to easily change capacity when shooting so called Outlaw matches, while retaining ability to use the regular end cap when restriced to 8 shell capacity.
Much easier (and cost effective) to change an end cap than a whole tube assembly and messing with the clamp.
Mick
Mick,
The delrin is working fine, but, we don't get a lot of long gun shooting up here. And, the local matches will usually limit the shotgun to 8+1. Like you noted, the extra shell doesn't really go into the tube, and the delrin is pretty slippery. Some carbon gets on the tube from being past the muzzle slightly, but, it comes off easily enough, and doesn't show any signs of gas cutting.
Can't comment about the sun affecting it, we don't get it like you do in Phoenix.
Doesn't DPMS sell a Clear mag extension?
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Another observation from today's testing.
With the +1 end cap, there was zero muzzle blast residue on the end cap. This was due to the extended choke tube that was in place.
With the +2 end cap, there was muzzle blast residue that started just past where the +1 cap ended.
Another random observation. With 9 rounds in the tube, the shells and follower stay completely inside the tube. This means only the spring is contained inside the +1 end cap.
With 10 shells, the 10th shell pokes out of the tube about three quarters of an inch. That means part of the 10th shell, the follower and spring are contained inside the +2 end cap when fully loaded.
Mick
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Thanks, Kurt!
Are you using the standard spring, or something else on your sample?
Mick
So far the plus one cap is working perfectly!!
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Dan, would it not be easier to make the smaller part (end cap) rather than a longer tube?
I would have concerns about the long term durability and rigidity of a delrin mag tube that thin as well as how it would hold up in the AZ sun. In addition to that, couldn't the metallic rims of the shells score the inside of the tube and create debris, leading to a jam? That won't happen with metal. Also, how well is delrin going to hold up to muzzle blast?
Mick
Rather than a cap, you could have machined an extended tube, with a male thread on the end to take the existing cap. I made an extened cap out of delrin for the Nordic extension on my M2, it holds one more, and the last round is no where near bottoming out. I'm going to make the extension tube for the Versa Max I just picked up for my wife.
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Here is a comparison of the different end caps.
From left to right are - standard Tactical end cap, XXL end cap (doesn't fit), +1 end cap, +2 end cap.
Mick
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Here is what the +2 end cap looks like.
Mick
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Here is a picture of the un-anodized +1 end cap.
Mick
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Since picking up a Versa Max Tactical about 3 weeks ago, I noted that the mag tube was about a half inch shy of holding a 9th shell. Due to the thread pattern on the end of the Tactical mag tube being different (larger) than standard extensions, there was no available extended end cap that would fit.
So, I had built a +1 and a +2 extended end cap. Prototypes were finished last week and I was able to test them today.
NOTE - For this thread, discussion will be about technical aspects only!
For the testing, I used the standard mag spring and long follower that comes with the gun. I had on standby a longer Nordic spring cut to length for the 10rd tube on my 26" Versa Max.
The +1 end cap easily holds 9 shells. This was designed to have a quarter inch stand off from the end of the extended choke tube to provide some muzzle protection. With standard flush fit choke tube, it will extend 1 inch past the end of the muzzle.
The +2 end cap is longer, being a total of 13.5 inches combined length when on the Tactical mag tube. It easily holds 10 shells.
I am happy to say that the gun ran flawlessly with both end caps in place using the standard spring. This is not to say that a longer spring might eventually be needed - I just haven't come to that point yet.
Myself and 2 other shooters put a few boxes of shells through as fast as we could.
I also do not know yet how well the +2 will hold up to barrel dumps due to it's length. Obviously the weak point will be the end cap/mag tube thread interface. I will test that in upcoming 3-gun matches.
For now, so far so good!
Mick
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I've seen everything from roll the shotgun with loadport facing up, to load with loadport facing the ground while still shouldered.
Mick
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If you want 16", mid-length gas, chrome lined, threaded end, then go with Daniel Defense.
I went with their lightweight "pencil" barrel for a lightweight build for my son.
It is 0.625" inder the handguards. Gas block area is smaller than 0.750", however. I got mine with a pinned on Daniel Defense low profile gas block.
If you want adjustable gas, Syrac makes their gas block in a version to fit the pencil barrel....
Mick
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Or buy a JP for $100 and bob a mil rounded hammer and call it good!
Mick
Might want to look at the Timney singlestage 3 lb
drop in
under 200 bucks
Zero creep, clean break, short and disrinct reset
It is as nice as my Wilson Combat that ran 100 more
I dont know about this VersaMax....
in Shotgun - Technical
Posted
After today's match, no issues with slugs. Elevation is dead on at 50 yards. It MIGHT be shooting right by 2 inches, but that could well be me - I'm having issues keeping my head down on the stock. I think and Ashley rear sight is in order to cure that...
Mick