Nick Weidhaas Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I'm posting for a friend who wants to shoot a SV Infinity in .38super in IDPA ESP. He already has this gun which was built for Steel Matches, Limited Division. The frame is aluminum and slide has been lightened. I know the aluminum frme is OK, but is the lightened slide? The IDPA rule book isn't really clear. I does not list slide lightening on the list of approved mods and it is not listed on the prohibited mods list either. Anyone know for sure? Thanks, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Does it have big holes in the slide that can be seen? If the lightening is all internal then he could say it is internal reliability work. Most of the prohibited mods are for ADDED weight. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Actually I'm not sure if it would be illegal even if there were holes cut in the slide....time to do some research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 This is from the IDPA Rulebook. INCLUSIVE list of permitted modifications: (If it's not on this list, it can't be used in Defensive Pistol competition.) • Change of sights to another notch and post type • Change of grips (no weighted grips) • Internal accuracy work to include replacement of the barrel with one of factory configuration • Internal reliability work • Checker frontstrap and backstrap • Checker or square and checker trigger guard • Cosmetic checkering/serrating • Extended thumb (may be ambidextrous) and grip safeties • Full length guide rod manufactured of material that is no heavier than common steel • Change of hammer and other trigger action parts to enhance trigger pull • Beveled magazine well and add-on well extensions • Custom finishes NON-INCLUSIVE list of EXCLUDED modifications: • Heavy barrels, cone barrels and/or barrel sleeves (factory or aftermarket) • Porting of barrels • Compensators • Add on weights, weighted magazines, tungsten guide rods, extended dust covers • Sights of non-standard notch and post configuration • Extended oversize magazine release buttons • Trigger shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Thanks, but it is still not clear. Slide lightening is not listed as a can do, but it is not on the can't do list. I may just have to give IDPA HQ a call. Thanks, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Nick Get ready. If it deviated from their list, chances are you will be disallowed. I don't think it is possible to have it be approved if it falls into the NIH (not invented here) catagory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I would think that it could be placed under internal reliability work since it's intent is to help the gun function with light loads. If it is completely internal then I would think it would be OK. Of course the opinion of the Match Director of the match you are shooting right then is the only one that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 INCLUSIVE list of permitted modifications: (If it's not on this list, it can't be used in Defensive Pistol competition.) • Change of sights to another notch and post type • Change of grips (no weighted grips) • Internal accuracy work to include replacement of the barrel with one of factory configuration • Internal reliability work • Checker frontstrap and backstrap • Checker or square and checker trigger guard • Cosmetic checkering/serrating • Extended thumb (may be ambidextrous) and grip safeties • Full length guide rod manufactured of material that is no heavier than common steel • Change of hammer and other trigger action parts to enhance trigger pull • Beveled magazine well and add-on well extensions • Custom finishes Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If it is external at all, it is disallowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 So, is lightening the slide "internal reliability work"? Or could you shave material from the outside and call it "cosmetic checkering/serrating" ? I would think you could cut wide, deep serrations along the entire length of the slide and get away with it. Not sure about internal reliability work. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Just like the US Armed Forces "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Itlianstalion, You are probably right. Probably can't be done or will not be allowed. His slide is heavily lightened, (you can see the extractor in places). I think if he took a little off the front of the slide or from inside, he might get away with it. With the deep cuts in the back of the slide, I think someone will bone him on it. Thanks, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Nick This isn't like I have a friend whose new name is Mr. S..shine, but it isn't me; is it..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 No Tightloop. I really do have a friend with this gun. I just picked up a short dust cover SV limited gun in .40 (stainless steel). I am going to have the bull barrel turned down and a bushing fitted so I can shoot it in ESP. I've shot my friends .38 super limited steel gun and it is smok'in. It would be perfect for ESP. This game does have some stupid rules, IMHO. But those are the rules.......... After shooting his gun, I'm seriously considering having a SV built in .38super on an aluminum frame. I'll then just use my .40 for USPSA. Going to give the .40 a chance 1st though. Many have told me that the .40 loaded at a 130pf is pretty soft. Time will tell. Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Nick I have shot IDPA and if you could get reliable feeding with a 9mm in a 1911 platform, that is the hot set up. I went with 38Super to eliminate the feeding problems. I am here to tell you, a Super at 130 PF is soft, but very reliable. Don't know about 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 tightloop, My son is shooting a Caspian 1911 9mm with a titanium race ready frame. After we got the mag problem solved, the gun turned out awesome. He is 10 and wanted to start shooting pistol with Dad (he's been shooting rimfire since he was 7) He is a good kid, straight A's in school and likes to shoot. What more could I ask for. That said, I think there is an advantage to shooting a wide body SVI or STI in ESP Div. as I think the reloads are easier/faster. I dropped my SV off at the smith today and he is going to turn the bull barrel down and fit a bushing so I can shoot it in IDPA. I will then work up some 130pf loads and see how it goes. It would be cool if it works as I can then run the same gun in USPSA and IDPA. Later, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 the recoil of the 40 isn't much more than a 9mm i'd say equal to the super but less expensive. scott warren (multi time national champ) shot one and may still, i'm not real current as i didn't see him this year. as for the lightened slide if it's that extreme of a cut then yeah, it's illegal in IDPA. since it is mainly to gain a competitive advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 I got a email back from IDPA HQ on this issue. See below. Nick- Nick,Slide lightening is considered a competition only modification. As such, it is not legal for IDPA competition. Thanks, Dru Nichols IDPA Administrative Coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Nick: No, it's not a "Stupid" rule, it's an IPDA Rule. Unlike USPSA which changes the rules every six months to accomodate gamers and whiners, IDPA offers rules stability to insure that competition is based on shooting skills and not on an equipment race. Opps! Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Unlike USPSA which changes the rules every six months to accomodate gamers and whiners, IDPA offers rules stability to insure that competition is based on shooting skills and not on an equipment race. Opps! Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. Sounds like a quote from someone that has never shot IPSC before. Throwing rocks at another shooting sport does nobody any good. Opps! Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Ok folks, let's play nice now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 rmills, Last I checked I still had the right to express myself and form my own opinions, as you do. I do think that some of the Rules in IDPA are stupid. I base my opinion on 10+ years of law enforcement experience to including many years as a firearms instructor and tactical team members. I've had a lot of training and based on the intent of IDPA, some of the rules just don't make any sense and are not real world. Given my opinion of some of the rules in IDPA, I still choose to shoot the game. I understand the the rules are the rules. However, I am still entitled to form my own opinion about those rules and express it if I so wish. Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Nick: Your response was edited, so I'm not sure what the issue was. IDPA has particular philosophy behind the myriad rules. First, we've discussed - to keep it "real world" i.e. shooting guns that peope are likely to be carrying. Second we haven't really mentioned. They want to keep the competition based on the skills of the shooter, not the $$$ spent on the gun. Similar reason NASCAR limits things in their rules (as well as safety). Winning the race come down to a driver duel in the last few laps. As a new shooter coming into the sport, I liked that a lot. Those guys blazing away were doing so with the same gun that I could buy for $500 - $1500, not something that a special smith made up for $5000 and need a name like Rob, Matt, or Brian to get. It takes away the equipment excuse. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I'm going to LOCK this thread. If you think you have a strong enough arguement to unlock it...feel free to send me a message. (It will take something I haven't heard before...and it will have to be stated in a crafty manner ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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