looking to get into USPSA

[G-ManBart]

Edit: to avoid thread drift Well that and looking silly...lol

Edited September 9, 2009 by G-ManBart

[G-ManBart]

I've added a post to the "Tips for Newbies" thread covering the question of how to pick a Division if anybody is interested:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1054198

[Duane Thomas]

Bart,

EXCELLENT post.

[G-ManBart]

Bart,

EXCELLENT post.

I hope you don't mean the one with no text

[Duane Thomas]

Well, I do have to have certain standards.

[Shawn McKenna]

Hello All,

I am leaning towards the single stack division, and am looking at the following for pistols: BAER 1911 ULTIMATE MASTER 5" MODEL and the BAER 1911 PREMIER II© 5" MODEL.

Can anyone tell me more on the differences and which would be better? I am leaning towards the ultimate master one it has a 3.5 lbs trigger on it instead of a 4 lbs. trigger.

Thanks,

Shawn

[ChuckS]

Shawn,

I tried to do a comparison but as a Web designer, Les is a very good gunsmith. I went though a couple steps and came up with this comparison:

comparison.pdf

Either would be an excellent choice but the UM seems to have more bling. As long as they fit in the box and make weight, I think that the UM would be my choice. (and you could probably find someone to lighten up that heavy trigger )

Hope this helps!

Chuck

[Nemo]

Keeping in mind that everyone's finances are different, this is how I would look at it:

Since both guns have the same main components (frame, slide, barrel, sights) I would buy the Premier II and use the savings ($900) to purchase the rest of the stuff (some gun parts, all the gear and ammo-making stuff) needed to get into USPSA Single Stack division:

- Magwell (a must have)

- Drilled and tapped mag release w/ button (optional)

- Fiber optic front sight (optional)

- 6 to 8 new magazines

- Belt

- 5-6 magazine pouches

- Holster

- range bag

- primers

- powder

- bullets

- brass

Either gun will be excellent for USPSA SSD and L-10 (wish I could afford any one of them) in the end it will be the one you like the most and makes you happier.

Good luck!

[Rob Boudrie]

I've been sour on Les Baer guns ever since a buddy had one chemically and structurally analyzed and found that his "forged" frame that cracked was chemically and structurally consistent with all specifications for 1141 resulphurized hot rolled plate steel with no evidence of forging. In fairness to Les, he did offer to stand by his work with a $50 discount off the full purchase price of a replacement gun.

[Jeff686]

Hi again Shawn,

For me, a 0.5 lb difference in a trigger would have absolutely no bearing on anything. What really matters is a predictable and consistent trigger that breaks without any creep. Many people like to keep the pre-travel and over-travel to a minimum, others like lots of it. I'm sure a Les Baer will have a crips, creep free trigger.

Others will disagree, but I don't view USPSA as needing a hyper-accurate super precise firearm. For five years I successfully shot in L-10 and made B class with a $400 Chineese Norinco 45 with fixed sights and a piece of tape holding the grip safety down. Rarely did I feel the gun was holding me back. Because of this, I wouldn't worry about a 1/2 lb difference in trigger pull, or getting a super light trigger.

Here's a quick list of things that matter to me: Crisp trigger with positive feedback to 'call my shots'; sights that allow quick and comfortable acquisition; reliability!

[Duane Thomas]

As I said before, a few years ago I did an article testing several Les Baers, two of which were the Ultimate Master and Premier II, so I know whereof I speak when comparing them. From a functional standpoint (reliability, accuracy, handling qualities) they were, essentially, the same gun. Both are hard fit, blued steel, 5" barreled, Government Model-pattern 1911 .45s with ambi safety levers and an adjustable rear sight.

Thing's like the UM's checkered slide rear and serrated slide top, in my opinion, exist only to show off the skill of the pistolsmith, you get no real advantage from them. The checkered trigger guard is something most people either love or hate. I can take it or leave it, myself. The only real, substantive difference between the Premier II and the Ultimate Master, that will actually make a difference in your performance, is the UM's blended mag funnel versus the PII's no mag funnel. Get the Premier II, have a competent pistolmith install and blend an S&A for one HELL of a lot less than $900 and you're down the road with, for all practical purposes, the same gun as an Ultimate Master.

It is SO easy to tweak the weight of trigger pulls up or down by adjusting the sear spring that, once you learn how - and it ain't hard - you can set the trigger pull wherever you want it, so don't sweat the out-of-the-box trigger pull weight.

[Shawn McKenna]

Ok folks,

What is the best mag well to get and where do I go to find them?

Thanks,

Shawn

[G-ManBart]

Ok folks,

What is the best mag well to get and where do I go to find them?

Thanks,

Shawn

There really isn't a "best" but there are a couple that are more popular than others. The old standy is the S&A magwell which is a combined mainspring housing and magwell. Downside is the opening is pretty small and the steel versions are heavy.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDeta...0000-1093363049

I like the Techwell the best of everything I've seen/tried. It takes only a couple of minutes to install, is rock-solid secure and has the largest opening available. It's a combo system where the alumagrip panels are slotted to hold the magwell...sort of like a tongue and groove setup. So, you can switch magwell sizes easily. They've got some videos etc on their website that make it more clear how it works. The medium size is probably the best compromise. The large requires extra long basepads to make seating them 100%. I have the large size that I slightly shortened up on my disc sander and it's perfect with Wilson mags using the DE extended basepads.

http://www.techwearusa.com/products_techwell.asp or http://shootersconnectionstore.com/Techwell--C148.aspx

The other really nice magwell quite a few folks are using is the SV Infinity model. It's probably the prettiest of the large magwells, but it's a bit of a pain to install and a little pricey. Scroll down a bit and you'll find it:

http://www.sviguns.com/1101.php?indx=9

Dawson just came out with a new magwell that looks nice and has some good initial reviews:

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDeta...0A47-1248106733

[kevinj308]

I use this one http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_p...products_id=217

Had to blend it into the frame a little, but works great with Wilson 47D's and ETM's.

[Nemo]

Ok folks,

What is the best mag well to get and where do I go to find them?

Thanks,

Shawn

Shawn,

Take a look at THIS THREAD on single stack magwells. The most used magwells in USPSA are (in no specific order):

Smith & Alexander Mag Guide (one piece with the mainspring housing)

Techwell System (only works with the supplied AlumaGrips)

SVI (attached with screws to their product specific MSH)

Dawson ICE (the new kid on the block. PIX HERE)

The S&A and the Techwell are both sorta' slim-line, lo-profile magwells. The SVI and the Dawson are BIG MOUTH magwells. Based on the one you get, you may need different magazines, magazine base pads or mods to the mags. All of these you can obtain from FORUM VENDORS, check with them.

I have only owned and used the S&A, so I'm partial to that one by not knowing any better. IMHO it is the more aesthetically-appealing of the bunch.

$0.02 & YMMV

[G-ManBart]

Techwell System (only works with the supplied AlumaGrips)

The S&A and the Techwell are both sorta' slim-line, lo-profile magwells. The SVI and the Dawson are BIG MOUTH magwells. Based on the one you get, you may need different magazines, magazine base pads or mods to the mags.

Not entirely true. You can send certain kinds of grips (not wood) to Techwell and they will machine them to work with the magwell.

The Techwell large is actually larger than the Dawson (by a lot) and the SVI (by a fair amount). I haven't seen them next to one another, but the Techwell medium is probably very close to the SVI in total size. R,

[Nemo]

Not entirely true. You can send certain kinds of grips (not wood) to Techwell and they will machine them to work with the magwell.

Didn't know they would do that. That's pretty cool. I guess they could machine the "mechanism" on G-10 or micarta type grips.

The Techwell large is actually larger than the Dawson (by a lot) and the SVI (by a fair amount). I haven't seen them next to one another, but the Techwell medium is probably very close to the SVI in total size. R,

For 8-round mag accesibility issues, I'd only use horseshoe type (open front) magwells and the Techwell carry model is like that. It's the only one I've considered but never got around to own or had the need. I forgot they have three models. I stand corrected, Signor Guru.

[ChuckS]

Shawn,

If you would like, I could show you an S&A, SVI and Dawson ICE magwell. Any one of these will allow you to use your stocks of choice.

PM me if interested,

Chuck

[kevinj308]

If one is unaware of what to avoid, all one's efforts will be in vain.

-Fromm

From the Makumozo thread, just seemed relevant.

Kevin

[kimmie]

This is cheap and easy but works. Stays put and you can use it with most grips. - I've used it on my 1911 .45 and 1911 9mm when I was in a rush and didn't want to do the whole mainspring houseing thing. Comes blued and stainless steel.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=36896/sku/Blued_EZ_Loader

[Nemo]

So Shawn, what's the final verdict? What LB model are you getting? Also, if we didn't confuse you enough, what magwell will you use?

Just checkin'