Gaming A Stage For Revolver.

[dajarrel]

guys,

I have recently decided to compete with my revolver for the next six months or so. I really enjoy it but haven't resolved to stay with the commitment of shooting revolver until recently. You know, It sure is hard to watch your buddies blasting away with the 18-20 rounders while you struggle to make on six at a time. What is hard is that I have my limited gun in my gun bag ready to go!!!!

Anyway, I have been trying to figure out reloads working backward from the end of the stage. This kinda gives me a chance to maybe reduce a standing reload from time to time by being willing to throw away a partially used moon clip. The question is, Is this a waste of time or does it seem to be a viable method of "figuring out the stage?"

Any pointers are always welcome

Dennis Jarrell

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

As someone who competes (and I use that term loosly) with a revolver, I feel you need to figure reloads very close or you may be short a few rounds. There are times when it makes perfect sense to reload with 2 rounds left in the gun, but with all these 8 round neutral stages, those 2 rounds usually are needed somewhere

I usually figure the stage from start to finish rather than reverse as you suggest. I like to end up with un-needed rounds at the end. Your best bet is to make sure you have what you need to finish the course. I have only run dry one time and it was totally mental on my part. I got psyched out by the complexity of the course of fire. My problem on the stage was not reload related it was being mentally handicapped by the course.

I have changed my ammo carriers to the doubles that TK Custom cells which allows me to carry 54 rounds with no trouble. It adds to my ability to not worry about running short if I dump a partially loaded clip here or there. It takes one more of the mental aspects out of play.

Regards,

[SmittyFL]

I wouldn't think working backwards would help in gaming a stage, and you shouldn't really run out of rounds either. You just need to carry as many rounds as possible. I have 8 moon clip holders on my belt, I put another one in my back pocket plus the one in the gun to start that gives me 60 rounds. Basically I treat it like L-10, if you're moving, you're reloading. Unless something like the first two positions of a stage have 4 targets each for 8 rounds per position. You're gonna have a standing reload at both positions regardless, so you might as well keep the 4 rounds left in the gun from the first position to take to the next.

Every now and then I can pick a shot or position that might save me a reload, but it's not going to save you any time over a square gun. I love shooting revolver, but the thing you have to realize is in USPSA shooting a revolver is all about the reload. You'll spend way more time reloading than shooting, so if you're gonna dry fire practice, I feel that is where your time should be spent.

And when people give you a hard time for shooting ol' roundside, just tell them you get more value for your entry fee because you get more time on the range.

Good Shootin

[Ron Ankeny]

Yeah, what SmittyFl said. Good post.

[professor]

The best of plans often gets trashed before the end of a stage.

Planning revolver reloading spots usually means you've got every shot accounted for. Throw a mike that you have to make up, and that could blow the entire reloading plan from that point forward.

So in addition to the main plan, it is usually a good idea to consider what you will do if your shots get out of sync with the target plan. Whatever you do, try to keep the shots on paper paired up with your reloads. If you have to make up a shot, you're better off dropping the last round in that load and starting after reloading with the regular 2, 2, 2 shots on the next 3 targets. The other way, you're really going to slow yourself down, because you'll end up with 1 shot on a target, and the next reload would go 1, 2, 2, 1, etc. Every 3rd target would require target acquisition time twice, because of the split shot pattern.

Rather than just dumping a live round, you can sometimes use it on a piece of steel. I don't bother shooting it at a target that's already gotten its 2 hits, because the split time of taking the extra shot usually will lower my HF more than the point I might get in upgrading a C to an A on that target.

Also, watch the total round count on the stage. If you're at an exact multiple of 6, keep in mind that you have to shoot the stage without any misses, or you will need a reload because of any makeup shot. That said, you should know how many "extra" shots you've got to play with, when the stage count is not X6, and plan your speed accordingly.

[dajarrel]

Thanks guys,

I'm finding the mental portion of Revolver shooting to be the major challenge. If I go slow enough, I can hit all "A"'s but I really do hate a standing reload.

As a 8 year old told one of my friends when he was fussing about something, "Build a bridge and get over it" I guess I will just look at it as a challange, not an obsticle.

Thanks again

Dennis

[Rufus The Bum]

Unfortunately, most USPSA stages are not revolver friendly, so there is no choice but to do alot of standing reloads, that's where the reloading practice comes in. If you get your reloads down to about 2 seconds from shot to shot, you can compete, it's not that hard to do (with practice) I've beat alot of auto-guys simply by being smooth and consistent. Revolver is about being smarter, not faster.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I have also used the "work backwards" method to deconstruct a stage when shooting with a wheelgun. (I prefer "Victgorian Era Rotary Launcher" myself.) It can uncover a better way to structure your plan.

However, the real key to revolver success is to forget what youknow about engaging stages using a pistol. Your view of the stage must be viewed through a six-shot template, not a ten-shot one. Ignore what the others are doing in their walk-through or when they shoot.

A great example was Trailer Park II at the 2003 FGN. The first array was eight shots, with a couple of swingers, a mover that stopped visible, and steel. The Lim 10 and Production shooters hosed the array, and then reloaded before entering the "building" where more targets awaited. Inside, there were a pair of targets that were visible for only the first couple of steps, then you lost them. Easy to do as Lim-10, you've reloaded, and you can whang off four shots as you pass over the threshold.

We revolver shooters did it differently: We engaged the first array for six shots, then reloaded as we backed up to the threshold. Standing over the threshold, we took our last two shots on the first array, they pivoted and shot four rounds on the two targets inside. Then reloaded and proceeded.

Had we emulated the Lim-10 shooters, we'd have taken a standing reload on the first array, then reloaded for the two inside, then another standing reload on the array after that.

The most important lesson in revolver shooting is to be your own man, not a Lim-10 shooter with chronic ammo shortages.

[Ron Ankeny]

Patrick:

I haven't had much success in working an entire field course in reverse but I have broken them down into smaller chunks in order to make the best use of ammo and reloads as you describe.

[SmittyFL]

I've actually never thought of gaming a stage in reverse. I think it is better to program it in your head forward so you don't get confused. Especially at big matches where you don't get a lot of time for the walk through.

However, looking at anything from a different angle is usually productive. I'm going to try this at the next few local matches and see if I learn or come up with anything that I normally wouldn't have. But I still feel your last walkthrough should be forwards to help "program" it in your head.

[Patrick Sweeney]

The time for "backwars thinking" is when you've walked a stage repeatedly and can't find a way past a bottleneck. You know, the place there it all fades away, or you can't figure out how to do two reloads before the mover is gone.

Then stop and begin at the end. After all, you have to finish the stage. Sometimes by working backwards you can see that there is a location where going forward you'd load and shoot. But working back in groups of six, you see that the better approach there is to load, shoot two, dump, reload and scoot.

The heresy is, sometimes you don't shoot dry. We accept it as a rarity with a pistol, but somehow the urge with a revovler is to always shoot six before a reload. And to deal with the six immediate targets every time.

[spook]

Tactics for gaming stages with a wheelgun depend roughly on:

1) How fast your reloads are

2) How accurate you are.

If your reloads are fast (2.0-) you can make them either during short or long movements, which make planning a stage easier If they're not that fast, it's best to make them on the big movements.

You'll always run faster if you don't reload. So, try to avoid "just in case-reloads". Use every round wisely, and AIM. In IPSC revolver everything is scored Virginia.

[phara]

Spook,

How do you measure the speed of your reloads?

[spook]

I use a timer and see what the split between the last shot before and the first shot after the reload is.