C Sims Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Are these mag bumpers from Lone Wolf Dist legal is USPSA Production DIV.? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Chad, I think those are fine for USPSA Production...as long as they don't add weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Id say if they are to replace the existing floor plate ok but if they are to be glued on as the picture suggests I'd say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Chad, You might want to wait a few weeks before changing anything. IPSC wrote a new rule book. Right now, the USPSA Board is meeting to discuss our version of those rules (to be adopted for the next year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Flex, Yes, IPSC wrote a new handgun rulebook, but a couple of guys called Mike Voigt, John Amidon and Bruce Gary were an active and integral part of the process In any case, we didn't discuss divisions or divisional requirements, so changes to the USPSA divisions, if any, had no input from IPSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Flex,Yes, IPSC wrote a new handgun rulebook, but a couple of guys called Mike Voigt, John Amidon and Bruce Gary were an active and integral part of the process Darth, Your post perplexes me. Getting a little defensive?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Flex, Que???? My comment says that, in IPSC, there's no "us and them" mentality. The IPSC rules committee had a 30% USPSA contingent, so it's not as if The Evil Empire secretly met on the Death Star and formulated new rules to destroy the Rebels, BWA-HA-HA .............. Your comment about "our version of those rules" seems to be saying "We helped write the international rules but, dammit, we must have a different set of rules for us". Capish?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Sims Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 They do glue on the base pad. Would they be illegal due to the length or due to glueing them on or why? I think I'll wait and see what the rule changes are also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 They do glue on the base pad. Would they be illegal due to the length or due to glueing them on or why? Not that there really is a length requirement in production, its that you would be adding length to the factory mag. Possibly making it easier to do a mag change. I can't find my rule book to cite so dont quote me on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Vince, When I made my post, the USPSA Board of Directors was meeting to discuss our (USPSA's) adoption of the next set of rules. My advice is/was to wait to see what happened at the meeting before making any changes to the gun. There was no "us vs. them" intention in my post. When I get ready to dog on IPSC rules...I'll do so in a loud and clear way. Capish?? Chad, if those pads glue on top of your existing pads, then they would likely be considered "weighted attachments to the magazines", probably not legal for USPSA Production. If they just replace your current base pads, then I would think they would be fine. You might want to email John Amidon and get his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 And just to clarify, Production is a Division (as has been mentioned in other replies) your “class” in a division is determined by your performance on the classifier stages. Your division is determined by your equipment. Michael. (pet peeve? what pet peave?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hi guys, Just wondering - at a USPSA match, how do you check whether each magazine of each competitor registered in Production Division is not heavier than the weight of the standard magazines that come from the factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hi guys,Just wondering - at a USPSA match, how do you check whether each magazine of each competitor registered in Production Division is not heavier than the weight of the standard magazines that come from the factory? The USPSA rule says nothing about weighing magazines. It says: k) No weighted attachments allowed to magazines. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 And, since USPSA Production has increased in popularity over the last couple of years...we must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Flex, The USPSA rule says nothing about weighing magazines. It says: "(k) No weighted attachments allowed to magazines". Pretty simple. OK, maybe I'm not as smart as the average bear, but what exactly is a "weighted attachment". As the rule doesn't specifically state "base plates", I presume there must be other types of "weighted attachments" of which I'm unaware, and I'd just like to know what else qualifies. And, specifically in relation to this thread, if a competitor replaces a factory 2 ounce base plate with an aftermarket 3 ounce base plate, would this be considered a "weighted attachment"? And how would you know? Moreover, there are threads here criticising IPSC for having "unenforceable Production Division rules". Some contributors ask how Match Officials are supposed to know if a Model X gun used by a competitor is identical to the Model X gun on the IPSC approved gun list. Other subscribers ask how do we know if the trigger spring used by a competitor is an original factory item and not an (illegal) aftermarket item. In that same enforcement vein, I'm very interested in learning how the USPSA enforces Point K of the USPSA Production Division rules - in other words, a requirement has been stated, so how do you check and enforce compliance? Similarly, another USPSA Production Division rules says "Maximum (gun) weight - Yes, 2 ounces over factory specified". How do match officials check this? My quest for knowledge is never-ending, so I hope you'll willing to enlighten me in respect of USPSA rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Some contributors ask how Match Officials are supposed to know if a Model X gun used by a competitor is identical to the Model X gun on the IPSC approved gun list. I wish to export in the US Massimo and his whole guns production line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 OK, maybe I'm not as smart as the average bear, but what exactly is a "weighted attachment". Well Vince...the way I read that is any weight that can be attached to a magazine. As the rule doesn't specifically state "base plates", I presume there must be other types of "weighted attachments" of which I'm unaware, and I'd just like to know what else qualifies. Nothing else qualifies. All weighted attachments are DISqualified. (think: internal as well as external) And, specifically in relation to this thread, if a competitor replaces a factory 2 ounce base plate with an aftermarket 3 ounce base plate, would this be considered a "weighted attachment"? I think that would be considered an attachment that adds weight. I don't think it matters if it is one ounce or one-hundred ounces. And how would you know? The same way you claim to know if a Glock shooter's trigger is under 5 lbs., by feel...of course. (har-d-har-har) Moreover, there are threads here criticising IPSC for having "unenforceable Production Division rules". What does that have to do with this posters question? I'm very interested in learning how the USPSA enforces Point K of the USPSA Production Division rules - in other words, a requirement has been stated, so how do you check and enforce compliance? A base pad that sticks an extra quarter inch out of the gun would be a clue. As for somebody putting a weight inside a mag...I guess you would have to handle that the same way you handle all mag length questions. Your not going to gauge every mag at a match, but if you suspect a problem, you can take a closer look. Yes, 2 ounces over factory specified". How do match officials check this? Good question. I certainly don't know what a Beretta weighs from the factory. I don't even have the Glock numbers stored in my brain. However, I do know that you can replace the plastic Glock sights and replace the plastic guide rod with a tungsten rod and still remain under the limit. One Area Director I have talked with has mentioned that he would consider aligning the USPSA Production rules even more closely with IDPA rules for SSP (stock service pistol). The biggest change I can think of would be the exclusion of tungsten guide rods. I don't think that is an option that I would consider right now...we need rules stability here in the USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiten Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Does anyone know whether the Jentra Magazine Bumpers are legal for use in the USPSA Production Division? I have been using them for a while at club matches in an attempt to prolong the life of my magazines as they drop during the frequent reloads. I am going to the Area 2 Championships in a couple of weeks and I want to make sure that these bumper pads will not get me in trouble... Here is some of the sales hype describing these items: JENTRA MAGAZINE BUMPERSJentra, the manufacturer of the original Glock Plug, has made a magazine bumper pad in several competition inspired colors for easy identification of magazines. * Works on all flat bottom Glock magazine bases * IDPA approved - under 1oz & fits in qualification box * Protects mag base when dropped * Easy installation - all materials included * Allows for standard disassembly of your magazine * Adds comfort when inserting magazines * Works the T.H.E. magazine wells Thanks, Cor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Cor, I'm not an authority on USPSA divisional rules, but I note Point 21.1 of Appendix D9 of the USPSA rulebook, says: "No weighted attachments allowed to magazine". It's not my call, but I doubt the items you're asking about are legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 [mod note: cruiten, I merged your post with this one...they should prove similar...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiten Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Vince: Thanks for the reply. If I look at the letter of the law/rule I now agree that these magazine bumpers are not legal in the USPSA Production Division. However, it is my interpretation that the intent of the law/rule is to prevent the use of true weighted attachments that are intended to make the magazine drop faster in order to speed up reloads. However, I will remove them because I don't want to deal with the potential headache... Flex: Thanks for merging my post. I did a search before making my post, but I searched on "Jentra" and didn't find anything applicable... "Seek and ye shall find", I guess I was seeking the wrong thing... Cor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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