Spray_N_Prey Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Ok i'm looking for the rule number regarding must use a holster to shoot USPSA, I'm not talking about rules 5.2.x, they just state conditions about the holster. I'm looking for the rule that states "must have a holster to shoot USPSA match". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Ok i'm looking for the rule number regarding must use a holster to shoot USPSA, I'm not talking about rules 5.2.x, they just state conditions about the holster. I'm looking for the rule that states "must have a holster to shoot USPSA match". That would seem to be one of those plain truths that is reflected throughout the rule book without being directly stated. If you didn't, you'd be running afoul of a number of rules, including 8.2.3, as well as the WSB for any stage except one specifying a start with the gun on a table, barrel, etc. I was shocked when an R.O. at a local match said a new shooter could start from Low Ready Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Can I ask why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I was shocked when an R.O. at a local match said a new shooter could start from Low Ready Curtis Really? I've seen it a couple times. I thought it was better to let the new shooter at least shoot instead of sending him home. I agree it would be better to have them beg/borrow/steal a rig but there wasn't a spare to be had and this way they at least got to try USPSA out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Can I ask why? Taking his RO test.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I was shocked when an R.O. at a local match said a new shooter could start from Low Ready Curtis Really? I've seen it a couple times. I thought it was better to let the new shooter at least shoot instead of sending him home. I agree it would be better to have them beg/borrow/steal a rig but there wasn't a spare to be had and this way they at least got to try USPSA out. It violates 8.2.3: "A course of fire must never allow or require a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start" signal (except for unavoidable touching with lower arms)". The R.O. in question was thinking of the local steel matches, which allows low ready and accounts for it in scoring, but he was wrong here. The new shooter in question had an IWB holster and was able to safely draw from it, but for some reason this R.O. allowed him to shoot the classifier from low ready. He shot the majority of the match safely from his holster. Rules are rules: you don't bend 'em, you only break 'em. Everyone has gear that they loan. Barring that, we have in the past let a new shooter or the young son of a competitor try an informal run on a non-movement stage after we were finished. Or you let the shooter shoot without score, I guess. Holsters are central to our game and that's reflected in the rules. Curtis Edited June 10, 2009 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I've seen it (and have not been opposed to it) where with new shooters we'll have them start low ready or GSSF ready. It eliminates a potential source of safety concern until they're more comfortable. Ultimately, we're all adults (by age) and so after some discussion and review of safety, I ask them how they feel about it. Let's face it. First timers aren't going to win the match, so if there's a new guy who's nervous, dumbing down the rules for the sake of a guy coming back (to me) is an easy call. Rich ETA: Thanks Tom. OP - 5.2.1 is pretty close. Tie that with 5.2.3 and I think you'll get it. 8.3.7.3 isn't a bad idea either. Edited June 10, 2009 by uscbigdawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I've seen it (and have not been opposed to it) where with new shooters we'll have them start low ready or GSSF ready. It eliminates a potential source of safety concern until they're more comfortable. Ultimately, we're all adults (by age) and so after some discussion and review of safety, I ask them how they feel about it. Let's face it. First timers aren't going to win the match, so if there's a new guy who's nervous, dumbing down the rules for the sake of a guy coming back (to me) is an easy call.Rich I see your point, Rich. But other than a trial run not for score from low ready to give him or her a taste of the game, if a newbie can't safely draw, then perhaps they should be getting their feet wet in GSSF or a steel event. At our clubs, we have a pre-match orientation for new shooters and access their skills to see what their gun handling skills are like. When I'm running shooters, I walk them through the steps on the first stage and encourage them to take their time and stay safe. Makes for some slow draws, but as you say, they're not going to win the match anyway. But they do follow the rules and see what it takes to play the game. On a slightly related point: How many shooters get a DQ at their first match (I will raise my hand here). I had to DQ a new shooter last weekend for pulling his pistol out before "Make Ready." Sure, the thought crossed my mind to give him a pass...what would be the harm, why ruin his day, he's a new guy, no one was hurt, etc., etc. ?...but that undercuts the importance we place on safety and is a bad lesson. I felt bad about it, but explained what he did wrong and why his match was over on his last stage, and did my best to put his mistake into perspective so he won't be left with a bad taste in his mouth. Sorry for the thread drift...I'm getting bad about that in my advancing years Like Rich, I'd probably hang the case on 5.2.3 and 8.3.7.3, with a side glance at 8.2.3. Curtis Edited June 10, 2009 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I was shocked when an R.O. at a local match said a new shooter could start from Low Ready Curtis Really? I've seen it a couple times. I thought it was better to let the new shooter at least shoot instead of sending him home. I agree it would be better to have them beg/borrow/steal a rig but there wasn't a spare to be had and this way they at least got to try USPSA out. It violates 8.2.3: "A course of fire must never allow or require a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start" signal (except for unavoidable touching with lower arms)". The R.O. in question was thinking of the local steel matches, which allows low ready and accounts for it in scoring, but he was wrong here. The new shooter in question had an IWB holster and was able to safely draw from it, but for some reason this R.O. allowed him to shoot the classifier from low ready. He shot the majority of the match safely from his holster. Rules are rules: you don't bend 'em, you only break 'em. Everyone has gear that they loan. Barring that, we have in the past let a new shooter or the young son of a competitor try an informal run on a non-movement stage after we were finished. Or you let the shooter shoot without score, I guess. Holsters are central to our game and that's reflected in the rules. Curtis I agree you had a different situation there. The shooter had a holster. That wasn't reflected upon. The ones I've seen were guys who found out about this "UPS shooting thing", grabbed a gun and ammo and came to the match. I wasn't working the match as an RO but as a RO I was brought into the discussion on whether or not to let the guy shoot. To be blunt, we broke the rule and let the guy start at low ready and he got scored. At "If clear, hammer down, holster" he cleared the gun, dropped the hammer and cased the gun. The next month he was back with a shiny new rig and has continued to shoot. I fully think we gained a shooter by letting him participate. More OT: What is Glock Shooting Sports "Ready"? I take it that it's different from just a low ready position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) More OT: What is Glock Shooting Sports "Ready"? I take it that it's different from just a low ready position. Usually you're shooting behind a table where you stage your mags, unbag your Glock, etc. It's a low ready with forearms touching the torso, muzzle is pointed into the berm, parallel to the ground or at the ground between the shooter and the targets, finger outside the trigger guard. Curtis Edited June 11, 2009 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Can I ask why? PM'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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