Venezuela Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I was shooting my Beretta 92 - 9 mm with 135 gr. linotype (lead) bullets using 3.6 gr. Titegroup and was doing just fine. OAL was 1.160 I received some 120 gr. linotype bullets with .356 diameter which I loaded with 4.2 Titegroup, OAL 1.120. It felt quite good but I started to see 50% keyholes on the target. I changed powder to WIN 231 and I've now tried 4.0 gr. WIN 231 and see no keyholes but the gun won't cycle correctly so I plan to try 4.2 gr. and 4.4 gr. Have any of you experience with keyholes? Anybody have loads for 120 gr. linotype & WIN 231 or Titegroup? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Venezuela, the first thing i would check is your crimp. overcrimping will cause bullets to tumble. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 This has been discussed on the forum, but I didn't find much specific with a Search. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...556&hl=tumbling http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=tumbling\ Some of us have noticed lead 9mm bullets inexplicably tumbing and keyholing with fast powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 One issue with 9mm lead is the sizing of the bullet. The bullet diameter among lead bullet "manufacturers" varies and I have seen this cause keyholing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bompa Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I sized some 130gr swc to 357 and had quite a few keyhole..Same bullet sized to 355 and no keyholes.. Seems strange that a couple of thousands would make such a difference.. It seems that the slightly heaver weight bullets don't work good in the 9mm.. Same bullets in the 38 super work just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Bullets lose stability as they pass thru the speed of sound. Also, some plated bullets seem to have the plating comes loose at about the same speed, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I don't know what linotype bullets are, but I have had bad keyholing with SOME berry's and west coast 9mm bullets. Zero jacketed= worry free shooting. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venezuela Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Problem solved! It was the crimp! I was crimping at .378 at the mouth of the case. I increased (less crimp) the crimp to .380 and no more keyholes. I did hover break the locking block on my Beretta 92F. I already ordered the part from Numrich, about $60 with shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 1. Did you get a genuine Beretta LB? 2. How many rounds did the gun have before it broke? 3. How old is the gun? Beretta has recently made changes to the LB to make them more durable... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venezuela Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 1. Did you get a genuine Beretta LB?2. How many rounds did the gun have before it broke? 3. How old is the gun? Beretta has recently made changes to the LB to make them more durable... SA The gun is over 20 years old, however I have just recently begun to shoot significant quantities of ammo, total about 5,000 rounds in gun's life. I did buy an original Beretta LB. Do you have experience with broken locking blocks? If so, do you know what caused it? My armor said it might be excessive loads (I reload my own ammo). I was using 120 gr. lead (linotype) bullets, 4.4 gr. of WIN 231, OAL = 1.120. Crimped to .380. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ernest Langdon carries the current (4th gen) locking block, and it apparently is so durable that it will outlast the barrel you install with it. Search on the web for Langdon Tactical Technology. I'd give the link but I just upgraded to Windows 200 Pro and can't find a damned thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 http://www.langdontactical.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venezuela Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thanks a lot guys, you've been very helpful. I'm still confused with regards to this load for 9 mm: 120 gr. lead (linotype) bullets (.356), 4.4 gr. of WIN 231, OAL = 1.120. Crimped to .380. The loading manuals I own have VERY wide ranges for these bullets: from 2.9 gr. to over 5.00 gr. Is it possible that 4.4 gr. is too much? Another doubt: I use Federal and Winchester Small Primers. Are these different enough that they might cause a significant change in pressure? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 4.4 sounds about right. My long-time 9mm load was 4.2 of Bullseye with a 125 lrn, so 4.4 of WW-231 is definitely in the ballpark. I stopped using it when I found some pistols didn't like Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cats Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 About right, or maybe a little high? I use 4.1 gr 231 in a West Coast RN 124 gr to get a PF of 128-129. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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