Classifier Question

[JThompson]

I have a bit on an issue here... see if you guys know what it is, and if so, how to solve it so "most clubs" could still shoot it.

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[wide45]

Requires a bay that is not too much wider than the stage, with good side berms.

Shots hitting the walls, may cause problems with shoot thru on the poppers.

[JThompson]

The Walls! Exactly.

Even with a couple of NS it's an issue... I am redesigning it as I don't see a good way to deal with it. Not a lot of clubs have enough steel for hard-cover.

I'll bring the wall out some....

Edited March 29, 2009 by JThompson

[JThompson]

I think this might fix it...

The wall is obviously scaled wrong as to placement, but the info is correct. I think I'll build this sucker and see how it looks real size. As always your thought, giggles and good natured ribbing are welcome.

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Edited March 29, 2009 by JThompson

[boz1911]

I like the fact that the close targets are fullsize, allows the shooter to get cranking the speed before he has to slow down a bit. Nicely done. Not off the chart as far as setup is concerned either.

[Chris iliff]

Couldn't you just get rid of the walls and use "no shoots two high/ stacked on top of each other. One array of these per popper. Easier to set up as you don't have to drag wall sections and you get the same desired effect. Positioned properly, you'd still have to go to corners. Just a thought and your stages are all really good, I'll be using them this summer, thanks.

Edited: I was going off your first post and design, your second design looks good!

Edited March 29, 2009 by fourtrax

[JThompson]

Couldn't you just get rid of the walls and use "no shoots two high/ stacked on top of each other. One array of these per popper. Easier to set up as you don't have to drag wall sections and you get the same desired effect. Positioned properly, you'd still have to go to corners. Just a thought and your stages are all really good, I'll be using them this summer, thanks.

Edited: I was going off your first post and design, your second design looks good!

I didn't see any good way around the shoot through with those wall that close to the popper.... it would have been nightmare to score and for re-shoots. To tell the truth I never thought about using NS targets to make people move. It's worth consideration. I dislike NS targets as a rule.

Thanks fr the input.

JT

PS Looking at it with fresh eyes this morning I think I might swap out those partials in the back with full targets. I had them as partials to help deal with shoot through, but I don't need them now and it's a long enough shot as it is....

Edited March 29, 2009 by JThompson

[wide45]

Really have not done a lot about the shoot thru issue with the walls. Using no-shoots as a vision barrier, is a bad idea. No-shoots as a vision barrier in front of steel is a really bad idea.

Putting big targets close to the shooter, and far from the backstop, can be a big problem.

[JThompson]

Really have not done a lot about the shoot thru issue with the walls. Using no-shoots as a vision barrier, is a bad idea. No-shoots as a vision barrier in front of steel is a really bad idea.

Putting big targets close to the shooter, and far from the backstop, can be a big problem.

The biggest issue I see here now is the one you hit on... the possibility of skipping one out of the range. I will consider that and look at it when I mock it up. I might even move those two back. I really don't want to move them out as I want this thing to go on a 25yd range that's 21' wide shootable. That will make it so we can shoot it local at the indoor as well as the outdoor ranges. We have props that can be shot along the walls, so as long as it fits it's doable and there is no worry about rounds skipping out. I'll visit the issue after looking at the angles in the mock-up.

Thanks for the input...

JT

I love the knowledge in this place... how cool is it to have hundreds of years of experience to draw on?

Edited March 29, 2009 by JThompson

[Flexmoney]

As wide45 said...NS should be used properly:

2.1.8 Target Placement – Care must be taken with the physical placement of

a paper target to prevent a “shoot through”.

That includes NS targets.

And, anybody that dinged a NS and shoot-through on steel would be getting a freebie...a reshoot, instead of the NS that they earned.

4.6.1 Range equipment must present the challenge fairly and equitably to all

competitors. Range equipment failure includes, the displacement of

paper targets, the premature activation of metal or moving targets, the

failure to reset moving targets or steel targets, the malfunction of

mechanically or electrically operated equipment, and the failure of

props such as openings, ports, and barriers.

NS usage that will likely result in shoot-thrus is bad stage design.

[Flexmoney]

JT...don't you have any solid walls? Barrels?

We run similar setups to your first diagram all the time. Solid walls (which greatly lessens any chance of shoot throughs), which we attach NS's to which serves to guard our walls from getting shot up.

[JThompson]

JT...don't you have any solid walls? Barrels?

We run similar setups to your first diagram all the time. Solid walls (which greatly lessens any chance of shoot throughs), which we attach NS's to which serves to guard our walls from getting shot up.

We have coreplast, but that's about it....

[Flexmoney]

If I didn't have a solid wall, I'd build it such as to put a barrel behind the wall...between the wall and the popper. I'd still use the NS on the wall.

No barrels?

[Flexmoney]

BTW, I don't know that you have solved any shoot-through issues with the second diagram, if that was the point?

[JThompson]

JT...don't you have any solid walls? Barrels?

We run similar setups to your first diagram all the time. Solid walls (which greatly lessens any chance of shoot throughs), which we attach NS's to which serves to guard our walls from getting shot up.

We pretty much have all soft wall type stuff and the barrels are plastic which can be dangerous for diverting rounds.

Yes, I did bring the wall back to help with the shoot through issues. I know they can still be shot through, but it forces a bigger movement, so I feel it's less likely to get a shoot through. I don't think there is any way to prevent it without true hard cover. I could invert the V and put it right outside the box, but you still have the danger of shoot through. The only way I can think of to prevent it, without a big hunk of steel, is to perhaps set a hardcover popper in from of 2 of the poppers. May be set them not to fall and that would work. but I don't like the idea.

[wide45]

The only way I can think of to prevent it, without a big hunk of steel, is to perhaps set a hardcover popper in from of 2 of the poppers. May be set them not to fall and that would work. but I don't like the idea.

That would actually work quite well. Problem would be if you are intending this to be a classifier. Target presentation is apt to be inconsistent from one club to the next

[JThompson]

The only way I can think of to prevent it, without a big hunk of steel, is to perhaps set a hardcover popper in from of 2 of the poppers. May be set them not to fall and that would work. but I don't like the idea.

That would actually work quite well. Problem would be if you are intending this to be a classifier. Target presentation is apt to be inconsistent from one club to the next

I am and it would... not to mention tall and short people issues....