marcin c Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I recently acquired and STI Edge "tuned" by Prommersberger (Germany), aka "Black Major". Other than significantly lightening my pocket the gun gives me constant grievance, with small but annoying problems. Especially compared to Glock that I shot before. Today , after only cca 5,000 rounds (and 2 days before a major competition) the pin locking the barrel link broke (half of it still semi-fixes the link, the other half is gone). What do you think is a possible cause of this? I understand that normally there should be not much force exercised on this pin? thanks, marcin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Probably a poorly fit barrel...locking up with the link, instead of being properly fit. Or, stopping during recoil with the force on the link, instead of the barrel feet properly stopping on the impact point in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Bingo. The link is only supposed to serve one purpose: camming the barrel down. Swapping for a longer link on a missfit barrel is unfortunately common. There are a few ways to fix the situation. Tig weld metal back onto the feet and recut. Fit a new barrel. Lastly, you can sleeve the center of the slide stop pin and recut the feet on the larger diameter sleeve. I too bought a custom gun built by a reputable builder only to be vastly disappointed. That gun was the reason I started building them myself so I'm actually thankful. Anyway, the sleeve does work, I converted said gun into an open gun and "fixed" the barrel lock up. Edited March 26, 2009 by want2race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougR Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The link should break before the link pin. As has been covered the link's only job is to pull the barrel down out of battery. The barrel completely down out of battery will be against the VIS (vertical impact surface). At this point the slide stop pin should rotate freely, indicating no load on the link or link pin. If there is a load, the link is the wrong length or the VIS is positioned wrong. This pistol needs to be inspected by a qualified smith. It could be as simple as a defective pin. I would also inspect the slide stop pin for wear. Loads sufficient to break a link pin will show wear at the slide stop pin and possibly the frame holes. I remain suspicious of the pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The link is VERY strong in compression, and if link pins break without links breaking it is either bad luck or locking on the link as Flex said. This covers all but VERY rare problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead slinger Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Marcin C. Check out the ropic yet another barrel fitting question. It is about three or four topics down from this one. It will explain everything you need to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin c Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 The link is VERY strong in compression, and if link pins break without links breaking it is either bad luck or locking on the link as Flex said. This covers all but VERY rare problems. I took the gun to a gunsmith today, he replaced the link pin, however now it has a little play (not only sideways but also lenghtwise). Worse yet, I also discovered a small dent on the first locking lug on the barrel! I guess that means replacing the barrell anyway... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It means replacing the gunsmith, most likely. If you have a broken link, and he/she only replaced the link...and didn't address the problem...then you still have a problem. Now, you are also seeing some peening of you lugs? Get some pictures up of the damange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin c Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 It means replacing the gunsmith, most likely. If you have a broken link, and he/she only replaced the link...and didn't address the problem...then you still have a problem. Now, you are also seeing some peening of you lugs? Get some pictures up of the damange. Don't have that luxury where I live. Nearest qualified smith prob 2000 miles away, in another country Here is the dent in the barrell and the inside of the slide. The first lug seems to show (excessive?) wear. Only 3 months and 5000 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 You are going to need some input from someone more knowledgeable and practiced than me. There are LOTS of threads here in the gunsmithing section on barrel fitting...so you might not expect the more experienced guys to chime in yet again and again (they are busy fitting more barrels, and not typing). And, and ever greater source would be the 1911forum.com Sorry to hear you don't have a good professional smith option. (Are there any bullseye shooters in your area?) You might have to learn to do that yourself. I'd call that medium to hard to learn (because there is always a little bit more you can learn). If that was truly a stock STI EDGE, then I'd be kinda surprised to see it far off. There is a double-wide gun that comes from a different company here in North America (not SV) that I'm never surprised when I see their guns breaking links and slide stops. I just don't see that much in the STI guns. (I'm sure there are some.) I would guess that your dealer either got a parts kit in and did a lot of the fitting(?), or took and EGDE and enhanced(?) it. Anyway...your gun is not right. It never was. When it's off like that, parts will start to break at about the round count you experienced. If you keep shooting it, it's going to get worse. The barrel isn't "timed" correctly. "Timed" can mean a lot of things, but it's not really voodoo. It's the interaction of the parts. It's all measurable. I'd take that gun back and shoot the Glock. But, do your homework before you take it back, so you can show that it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin c Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 It means replacing the gunsmith, most likely. If you have a broken link, and he/she only replaced the link...and didn't address the problem...then you still have a problem. Now, you are also seeing some peening of you lugs? Get some pictures up of the damange. Don't have that luxury where I live. Nearest qualified smith prob 2000 miles away, in another country Here is the dent in the barrell and the inside of the slide. The first lug seems to show (excessive?) wear. Only 3 months and 5000 rounds. Thanks for the input. The gun comes from the top European STI importer, who also sells "enhanced" custom versions (lightened slide, very pretty visual tuning, polished barrel and ramp, dremmel on grip, some other cosmetic tuning). It did not feel right from the beginning (friction when operating safeties and controls) Rescomp mags ordered with the gun could not be inserted fully (inside frame seemed to narrow), so I dented all of my mags at the top of the tube, before I figured that out. There was a lot of polishing to be done to make the gun operate smoothly. Because the grip was relieved to allow for higher gripping, the mags did not eject cleanly (the plastic grip bends and makes the mag stuck even with moderate grip strenght). I lost the fiber from my Dawson front only after 1000 rounds (a drop of superglue actually keeps it in place now). Anyway, I was too busy and frustrated with the transfer from 9mm to 0.40 , different grip angle and totally different trigger characteristics (Glock vs. STI) to have to deal with all that . But who said the life was easy? Strangely enough the plain STI Edge that I also acquired as a practice gun shows no signs of any problem at all (after about 3000 rounds). It is perfectly smooth to operate. The problem was that the recoil characteristics of both are so different, I ended up practicing and competing with the customised gun (until I have the slide lightened on the Edge). The good news is that the dealer promised to repair the gun in a single day(!) once sent. I hope it will endure the one day-16 stage competition tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 The good news is that the dealer promised to repair the gun in a single day(!) once sent. I hope it will endure the one day-16 stage competition tomorrow Sure, if all he was going to do was replace the link. The link isn't the sickness, it's a sign of the sickness. Good luck. I know it must be frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 The damage to the lugs looks like the result of your barrel locking/unlocking improperly. The latest batch of V12 Tanfoglios develop similar damage. I am not a gunsmith and don't play one on TV but my question would be if the improperly fit barrel damaged the link or if altered geometry of the link when it was damaged resulted in the lug damage you see. Sorry Dude, definitely not a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) Strangely enough the plain STI Edge that I also acquired as a practice gun shows no signs of any problem at all (after about 3000 rounds). It is perfectly smooth to operate. The problem was that the recoil characteristics of both are so different, I ended up practicing and competing with the customised gun (until I have the slide lightened on the Edge). I'd send the slide from the Edge to a different gunsmith (maybe one here in the U.S.) to get it lightened. Then I'd do my own grip reduction that won't keep the magazines from falling free....here's a thread on how to do that yourself (it's easy): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=784502 Edited March 28, 2009 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 All I looked at was the pictures, but I'd send that gun back and ask for a refund. At a minimum it needs a new slide & barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin c Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 I'd send the slide from the Edge to a different gunsmith (maybe one here in the U.S.) to get it lightened. Then I'd do my own grip reduction that won't keep the magazines from falling free....here's a thread on how to do that yourself (it's easy): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=784502 Very nice! Actually I have a big hand, so dont really need the grip relieved (guard undercut is OK), but the gun came that way. I used epoxy to fill the relieved bit back in, but somehow the grip lost its rigidity and captures my magazines when squeezed. I'd love to buy a a few of the customised guns made by US smiths, but its difficult to arrange it shipped to Europe (gun export permits etc.). Here the choice of qual'd smiths is limited and the prices are so much higher. Did I mention my gun cost an equivalent of USD 4.500 (!) and it does not even work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockton Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 All I looked at was the pictures, but I'd send that gun back and ask for a refund. At a minimum it needs a new slide & barrel. +1 Barrel = toast Slide = probably toast (would want to see barrel lugs from front to back of slide angle, but I'd bet they are all rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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