Yet another newbie set a questions

[Mark Bellon]

I'm reloading for the first time. I'm starting with 9 mm for an XD tactical (5 inch barrel). I'm using Hodgdon's Clays powder with Rainier bullets.

The Rainier data says us LRN data and stay below 1100 fps. The Hodgdon's data says 3.0-3.4 grains is OK using an overall length of 1.100 inches.

1) The 3.4 grain data is 1039 fps using a 4 inch barrel so I'm not planing on using it since the 5 inch barrel would, very

likely, push me over the speed limit. Comments?

2) How crazy does one have to be about the case length? Is 1.1005 OK? 1.097?

3) I plan to make 20@3.0, 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3. Find the lowest that "works". Shoot 100-150 factory rounds then try the

smallest from the first test and work up until I get a good load. Now make 100 of the good load, shoot 50, then

100-150 factory and then the rest of the load. Wash, rinse and repeat until success. Any comments?

4) How does the erasure (bullet puller) work? I've watch a few videos and I just don't get it it to work! Any tips?

Thanks!

mark

[Mark Bellon]

Follow up on the bullet puller. I figured it out. I was way to delicate with the strikes.

Once I know what to do on the overall length I'm ready to start on powder calibration and then on to making rounds.

[High Lord Gomer]

What weight bullet?

As far as very minor differences in length...I would not expect the ones you mentioned to be any concern. I would, however, load them a bit longer. I do most 9mm rounds at 1.125.

[photog]

Whoa!! Stop and don't load plated bullets till you get plated bullet data! Really, plated bullets (like Rainers) are not Lead, and are not Jacketed. My Lee load book consistently shows that plated bullets use LESS powder than lead bullets. I'm not a reloading guru, but I do know that guessing about what will happen with a reload is a really bad thing. Trust only mfg's data. You will not be able to determine an over pressure load until to late.

Best thing is to email Hodgdon, and ask them what specific load to create with your specific components. I know that Alliant will help you out with those types of questions.

[MemphisMechanic]

Personally, although his caution is certainly not a bad thing, I'd load some with the minimum lead load, and go chrono them.

If plated rounds are actually faster than lead (never shot 'em, just FMJ and Moly) then with a load that light, the worst thing you'll see is going to be a load that mimics factory ammo, and is well over minor PF. You're not at risk of blowing the gun up.

For an OAL, if I don't know what a 9mm likes, or there's no specified length, I load to 1.125"

For reference, I loaded the same 3.2 of titegroup and a 147 P.D. FMJ to 1.25, 1.130, and 1.155. Velocity only varied by 8-10 FPS, and I've seen similar results with other loads. OAL just doesn't change the velocity that much. And my G34 really likes 1.130 with that load. Grouped tighter than the other lengths I listed.

[ChuckS]

Whoa!! Stop and don't load plated bullets till you get plated bullet data! Really, plated bullets (like Rainers) are not Lead, and are not Jacketed. My Lee load book consistently shows that plated bullets use LESS powder than lead bullets. I'm not a reloading guru, but I do know that guessing about what will happen with a reload is a really bad thing. Trust only mfg's data. You will not be able to determine an over pressure load until to late.

Best thing is to email Hodgdon, and ask them what specific load to create with your specific components. I know that Alliant will help you out with those types of questions.

From the Rainier website:

RainierBallistics

Reloading Data

We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.

Later,

Chuck

[Mark Bellon]

The Rainier data specifically says to load with lead data (which what I first stated) and another kind person has also pointed this out - I'm not guessing at the data; I checked their publication(s). I found the 1100 fps limitation in another (official) place from Rainier and also saw it from other reloading sources.

Yes, I noticed the apparent short lengths hence my questions. The Hodgdon 115 grain FMJ data is listed at 1.169", 115 grain LRN data is 1.100 (I just checked again in the official, printed Hodgdon data book).

I'm loading 115 grain bullets. Sorry, forgot to list that.

I made an additional 20 rounds (not primers or powder yet) and checked them. The lengths fall out as 1.100 +- 0.002.

Sounds like I'm OK to make some 3.0 and 3.1 grain stuff and try it out. Any further comments?

Thanks to everyone for helping out!

mark

[ChuckS]

Mark,

Just as a data point: I use 135 .40 Rainiers at an average velocity of 1250-1275 FPS. They work fine.

Later,

Chuck

ETA: I seem the recall that the website used to list 1250 as the speed limit but I may be wrong. In any case, don't overcrimp.

Edited February 16, 2009 by ChuckS

[Mark Bellon]

Eight fingers, two thumbs, check. Everything went safely. This is way cool!

I tested 20@3.0, 3.1 and 3.2, each OAL 1.100" +- 0.002. I never got the point of using the chronograph:

3.0 grains was total FTF. I could see the brass, like it was in slow motion.

3.1 grains was FTF and stovepipes 3/10. The brass was moving faster but still easily visible.

3.2 grains worked pretty well but gave me one stove pipe. It was pretty had to see the brass.

Looks like I'll make a batch of 50 @3.3 and 3.4.

Thanks everyone!

mark

[warpspeed]

looks like you are on track Mark.

Make sure that you are looking for pressure signs as well as function. I think that you will be OK but just make sure the primers look OK.

I think that the chrono would be a good idea even on the rounds that you had FTF with as it gives you an idea on how much more a 0.1 gr of powder will increase velocity.

BTW, what are you planning on shooting with these loads ? 1100 fps with a 115gr will get you to 126.5 pf. Not much of a margin if you are shooting USPSA / IPSC / IDPA stuff.

[Mark Bellon]

> looks like you are on track Mark.

Thanks! I'm getting there...

> Make sure that you are looking for pressure signs as well as function. I think that you will be OK but just make sure

> the primers look OK.

I've been looking but thanks for reminder. No signs of problems (I'm using CCI primers if it matters).

> I think that the chrono would be a good idea even on the rounds that you had FTF with as it gives you an idea on how

> much more a 0.1 gr of powder will increase velocity.

My initial concern was safety, initial familiarization (this is so way cool) and proper mechanical operation. I'm going to crank up the chrono with the 3.3 and 3.4 loads as I'm going to get really close to the 1100 fps recommend speed limit.

> BTW, what are you planning on shooting with these loads ? 1100 fps with a 115gr will get you to 126.5 pf. Not much

> of a margin if you are shooting USPSA / IPSC / IDPA stuff.

My ultimate goal is IPSC but I'm so far from that at this point it's a long term goal.

In the short term I've joined a local "action pistol" group and as they do a fair amount of steel shooting and like "powder puff" rounds to be used to save the targets I'm tuning for that first (barely minimum PF). That's why I'm using Clays and Rainier bullets - slower and softer (but without the direct lead exposure).

I just started dry fire holster draws and the Anderson "Refinement and Repetition" exercises. Once I'm good with the steel targeting stuff I plan to push some 124 JHP for 9 mm and up the speed.

I plan to work up a similar "powder puff" for my .45 using Rainier bullets as well. I love both calibers and somewhere, sometime soon I need to formally decide what I'm going to try to compete with.

Thanks!

mark