Resjudicata Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 BTW, what it is doing besides dipping is that the slide is closing so hard it is causing hammer follow and the gun is doubling. The complete lower has been used with my 5" topend without this issue. This is with 13, 12 and 10 pound recoil springs. Y'all are gonna let that...slide?? I checked the gun extensively and what was happening is that the heavy slide was causing so much movement with my grip and trigger manipulation that I was bump firing it. I could do on demand at the range or I could grip much harder than normal and pin the trigger to the rear very hard and it wouldn't do it. I could have modified how I shoot to partially solve the problem however, I would rather change the gun to work with me than vice versa. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 how light is your trigger ? just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 how light is your trigger ? just curious. I don't have a way to measure it but my guess would be 3# or so. It is lighter than my good 1911's but not as light as the other locals keep their 2011 based race guns. I think part of my problem with it is that I ride the trigger. Therefore, what seemed to be happening is that the gun would go back farther than I'm used to and when my finger reset the trigger it would ride it while the gun bounced after closing. If I loaded one round at a time I could actually see what I was doing and when the sights came back down my finger would hit the trigger and the hammer would drop. If I kept the trigger pinned back and waited for the sights to settle before reseting I could keep it from doing it. However, that isn't conducive to shooting quick. I pulled the sear spring and put a ton of weight on it and I could still get it to bump fire at the old slide weight of almost 15 ounces. Now, I have the trigger weight back down and during test fire the other day I didn't get it to bump fire at all. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm no gunsmith, but I cannot see where the heavy slide would make your pistol bump fire. I shoot a 6" light slide STI as stated above and I have a Les Baer 6" forty-five, too. Neither bump fires and the Baer is bone stock other than the 1.5" accuracy job from the factory. Trigger pull on the Baer is about 3.5 pounds and the STI is about 2.5 pounds. If slide weight had anything to do with the bump fire, don't you think the Baer would act like your pistol, too? My thoughts would be a sear or spring problem. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm no gunsmith, but I cannot see where the heavy slide would make your pistol bump fire. I shoot a 6" light slide STI as stated above and I have a Les Baer 6" forty-five, too. Neither bump fires and the Baer is bone stock other than the 1.5" accuracy job from the factory. Trigger pull on the Baer is about 3.5 pounds and the STI is about 2.5 pounds. If slide weight had anything to do with the bump fire, don't you think the Baer would act like your pistol, too?My thoughts would be a sear or spring problem. Buddy I had thought the same originally. However, how else could one explain that I was able to do it on demand (if the sear was bouncing it would happen even if the trigger were pinned back, or at the very least erratically), or that it didn't do it with the 5" top end on it and, that it stopped doing it once the slide was lightened more giving less violent movement. Again, I don't claim that it would happen with all shooters in all cases with that weight slide. My friend tried the gun and he could also keep it from happening. I believe it is a result of me combined with the gun. I ended up changing the gun to suit me which is kinda what we all do in the end. BTW, I'd be curious what your STI and Les Baer slides weigh with the sights, firing pin and extractor installed. If you have the chance to post the weight I'd appreciate it as a comparison. Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 BTW, I'd be curious what your STI and Les Baer slides weigh with the sights, firing pin and extractor installed. If you have the chance to post the weight I'd appreciate it as a comparison. Thanks, Chris I don't have a scale to weigh it, but will try to get by the Post Office and get the weights for you. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Great info here, I just picked up an STI 6" Unique slide from the Classifieds and will be pairing it with a long-wide frame. Planning to just match the weight of my 5" Limited upper and call it a day. I see most of the lightening are done on the front end of the slide. Very nice lines there Todd, are you settled with 11.9 0z. or do you feel more or less should be taken? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Check your grip screws (top) and the ones at the trigger guard. Then look for any cracks around the mag release. Both can cause trigger problems which could be exagerated by a heavier slide. I wouldn't take a Slide or Barrel into the Post Office! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Very nice lines there Todd, are you settled with 11.9 0z. or do you feel more or less should be taken? Thanks. It shoots pretty good where it is now. I'd want to try a gun with a lighter slide before going further to see if it warrants the work. I was 13.8 before I thinned it. It wasn't the night and day difference I was expecting after reading about lighter slides. The only real difference was it didn't feel as long/nose heavy when dryfiring. In all the talk of light vs. heavy I really think its what you get used to, not what is the hot set up of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Very nice lines there Todd, are you settled with 11.9 0z. or do you feel more or less should be taken? Thanks. It shoots pretty good where it is now. I'd want to try a gun with a lighter slide before going further to see if it warrants the work. I was 13.8 before I thinned it. It wasn't the night and day difference I was expecting after reading about lighter slides. The only real difference was it didn't feel as long/nose heavy when dryfiring. In all the talk of light vs. heavy I really think its what you get used to, not what is the hot set up of the day. HSmith had posted something like that on another thread. He said that some like lighter and some like heavier. I will shoot mine for a while the way it is and see how my times and hits are since that is all that matters anyway. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Check your grip screws (top) and the ones at the trigger guard. Then look for any cracks around the mag release. Both can cause trigger problems which could be exagerated by a heavier slide.I wouldn't take a Slide or Barrel into the Post Office! Austin had suggested the same thing. I checked those since I had just pulled the lower apart to clean it recently but found the screws to be okay. I'll check again tonight at the range. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Check your grip screws (top) and the ones at the trigger guard. Then look for any cracks around the mag release. Both can cause trigger problems which could be exagerated by a heavier slide.I wouldn't take a Slide or Barrel into the Post Office! I live out in the country and things are a bit different from the city. The Post office people actually know you out here. One was walking up to my door recently and I started talking to him and he put his finger up to his lips (like to make me talk soft) and told me not to wake Lizzie. Lizzie is my dog. Thanks for the heads-up anyway. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinkroe Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Just a back-up post on the doubling. I was there the day he got it to double. He bumped up the sear spring until the pull was around 6.5 lbs. He was still getting it to go. He handed it to me when it had the light trigger and I could not get it to double. I am one of the locals that runs a 2 lbs trigger and I think the problem was the nut behind the trigger more than the sear hammer relationship. Not to mention, he was not getting it to double when he had the 5" slide on the same frame. We will see tonight how it works. -Res Ipsa Loquitur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Check your grip screws (top) and the ones at the trigger guard. Then look for any cracks around the mag release. Both can cause trigger problems which could be exagerated by a heavier slide.I wouldn't take a Slide or Barrel into the Post Office! I live out in the country and things are a bit different from the city. The Post office people actually know you out here. One was walking up to my door recently and I started talking to him and he put his finger up to his lips (like to make me talk soft) and told me not to wake Lizzie. Lizzie is my dog. Thanks for the heads-up anyway. Buddy I live in a rural area also. Not quite Mayberry though. My luck is I'd show up just as an Inspector, or some other big bureaucratic wig showed up and "!POOF!". If you have a trigger gauge it'll usually weigh enough to measure a slide and barrel. My RCBS Spring, it's a bit old, goes to 76 oz. I think, or 4 1/2 lbs. It's not engineering exact but can get pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Check the disconnector notch in the new slide and compare it to your 5" slide. It sounds like your disconnector is not working right with the 6" slide. Just a thought. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Check the disconnector notch in the new slide and compare it to your 5" slide. It sounds like your disconnector is not working right with the 6" slide. Just a thought.EG I didn't think that could be a problem. Is it that it disconnects at the wrong time or could it cause bounce to the sear? I'll check this tomorrow and compare them. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Hey Chris, I wish I had read this before heading to the range last night. This week I will bring my trigger scale so you can find out just what your pull is. buddy_fuentes, The extra weight of the slide moves the gun more in the shooters hand. As it recoils backwards it drives the gun just a little bit deeper into the hand or rotates it up just a bit. With a short trigger throw this could allow the trigger to reset and as the gun returns forward it can cause the trigger to be pulled. Chris and I both ride the triggers on our guns feeling the disconnect instead of slapping the trigger. To give another example, I was at the range shooting my heavy bench rest 10/22 one afternoon using a bipod up front and a sand bag in the rear. The gun weighed enough that it didn't move much BUT it did move. As the bolt reached the full stroke of the cycle to the rear it allowed just enough movement in the trigger to reset it. As the bolt slammed forward into battery the gun again moved forward and into my trigger finger allowing it to fire. Nothing quite like shooting a three shot burst out of a rifle (bump fire) into a target at 50 yards and finding a 1 inch group. lol For those who have never shot bench rest much most shooters will only touch the gun with their trigger finger, allowing the gun to freely recoil and limit the amount of human input (screwing up your group sizes). This is just what I was doing when I had my issue. Anyway, with the extra weight on the slide which is moving it can cause an issue just like mine. Joe W. And for the record, Chris has HAD some pretty guns, then he opened the box and took it out. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Damn, even getting it from Joe. Well it ran fine last night at the indoor match. I didn't like the feel on the clock. It just wasn't settling in the front how I'm used to. I opened up the spaces between the four holes on top and now it has two tear drop shapes on top. It now weighs 13.75 ounces which is .1 ounce less than my 5" slide. I'll see how it settles for me now. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Well, I tried it in slow fire yesterday and I liked how it tracked so far. However, I still need to see how it looks, feels and hits in rapid fire on the clock. Here is what it looks like unfinished. Looks like hell, I know. Once a reshoot the black finish it'll look a bit better. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinkroe Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 It is so ugly... I love every bit of it. It looks like one of your targets from accuracy practice, holes everywhere with no solid pattern. Just kidding. Athough, I am going to call it your double tap gun. Because you could have won all the tools you used to do this bit of ghetto gunsmithing off the DT prize table and you got the slide from STI contingency from DT. Sadly, I know you will continue to beat me by 5% all the time with this hideous thing. I guess it doesn't have to look pretty to shoot pretty. Now put some grip tape on that beast to cover up the monster you have created and shoot it like you stole it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzygä Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You sure take same material off the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yes it is ugly. However, it does run so that is something. It does have a lot of holes. I really don't know how someone could get a 6 inch slide complete with sights, extractor and firing pin down to some of the weights I've read about and it still have a long life. I'm sure the tri-top cuts take a good amount of weight off but, I can't imagine it would take of 2 to 3 ounces. Of course, they are getting it done some how. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You must get busy, put 20,000 draws and about 10k rounds thru it and it will then "look" worn instead of hideous! Looks as bad as my old Open Gun with a Jet Comp that I Ported on the sides. Good Luck though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Chris. if ugly guns shoot better you will be a GM in no time at all. I can't wait to see it in person this week. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well it looked like it ran pretty good last night Chris, how did it feel? Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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