Pool and Billiards

[j1b]

I played quite a bit of pool today. Those that know me know I dig the game. Love 9 ball. Played much of today all by my lonesome and was just fine with it. There's something about running a 9 ball rack that really satisfies me - though it happens way too rarely.

Anyhow - there were several contemplative things I noticed that I'd love to start some discussion on.

First, you ever notice how much the first shot dictates the pace of the game? Or at least it does with me. Shouldn't be that way, but if I make the first shot then I'm all engaged to run the rack. If I miss it then I automatically know I can't run the rack. I still stay engaged but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a different feeling. Once the first screw up happens I let go of the perfect rack. Shouldn't be that way though, should always be focused on making the best of what you have left, regardless of what that is.

I notice this shooting trap as well. If I miss a bird on the first station my odds of breaking 20 go WAY down. Not from a numbers/statistics perspective. It's an attitudinal change. If I miss a bird, then I automatically know I can't be perfect that round. Interestingly if I miss that bird in the fourth or fifth station I still stay pretty engaged. I know I've got a decent round going and I'd hate to screw up a 24 with a 23.

Second, there are two components to the game. Shape, and shot. Probably something like in IPSC there's negotiating the stage, and then actually shooting the shots. I have missed many shots on the pool table thinking about shape. But the reality is the best shape does no good if I don't make the shot that allows me to shoot next. Makes me believe that through all the challenges we see at an IPSC match - if we can't make the shots then the rest really doesn't matter. It further supports my opinion that if you can't execute the core basics then the rest of it is very hard to work with.

I think that one also has to have the ability to see the table from up high, as well as down low. Much like I think at a match you need to be able to understand the match and all the stages, but also be really focused on the one stage we're on now.

There is strategy in both games. There should be. If one isn't strategizing through the stages and matches then they aren't thinking broadly enough about the game. Just like in pool, if when shooting the 1 ball you aren't thinking about the 2, 3 and 4 balls then it becomes virtually impossible to really run the rack. Though I circle back to my original point, if you don't make the 1 ball then nothing else matters.

The fundamentals count more than anything else. Smooth, straight, relaxed stroke gets it done in pool. Similar in IPSC. They are both finesse games.

Anyhow, I was shooting some stick and those thoughts just rattled through my head. Would love to get some engaging conversation going on similarities with other sports (or dissimiliarities) and develop methodologies on how we can pull in best practices to maximize what we're doing here.

Jack

[lynn jones]

Pool and Billiards

And what it can teach us about shooting

1. don't play pool with jack!

2. don't bet you can out shoot jack!

[j1b]

I notice this shooting trap as well. If I miss a bird on the first station my odds of breaking 20 go WAY down. Not from a numbers/statistics perspective. It's an attitudinal change. If I miss a bird, then I automatically know I can't be perfect that round. Interestingly if I miss that bird in the fourth or fifth station I still stay pretty engaged. I know I've got a decent round going and I'd hate to screw up a 24 with a 23.

I was thnking a bit more about this idea - and this topic to me is very much about the mental game. That's probably the whole intent of opening the thread. How our mental attitude affects the shooting performance.

For me, there's been one nationals that I really felt I had positioned myself well to win. It was in 94', I ended up 3rd at the match and lost the overall by 23 points. On the last day of the match two things happened. First, I had my first miss. Shockingly, I wasn't all that down. One miss was not the worlds end - I knew that this could still work - though clearly I'd made it more difficult on myself. Heck, a day or two before I damn near tripped and fell all over the place on a stage and still managed to win it! I knew a little stumble could still be ok. The other guys were feeling the pressure just like I was.

Then, on the next stage, I had a failure to feed. I don't know the time it cost me, not much. Maybe a second. Maybe 2. That gun had run flawless time and time again. And on that damn stage, in the most important match of my life, I had a jam. On top of a dang miss the stage before.

After that stage I resigned myself to losing. It was an interesting dynamic. After shooting great all week long, after two stages, I knew I wasn't going to win. It is interesting how the mind plagues itself like that.

The last stage I shot very conservatively. I don't know were I ended up on it, but I know I was a full 2 seconds behind the stage winner. Who was the match winner. While I've never done the math on this I wonder if I figured up points lost on that last stage what that'd equate to. What if it were 20 points? 10 points a second? If I'd stayed engaged would it have made a difference???? I know I'll never know!

It's not regret, it is a primo example of how mental attitude dictates success. Like that first miss on a pool table.

THen I was thinking last night about understanding expectations. I know for a fact when some people play pool it isn't a function of "if" they'll miss. It's really just a function of how many times. Or more appropriately, hopefully less than the other guy. Do people think that way in shooting? Do people understand they're going to have misses at a match and simply help manage how many? If so that feels very defeatist to me.

Just spinning some thoughts - I should have dumped this topic in my range diary

Pool and Billiards

And what it can teach us about shooting

1. don't play pool with jack!

2. don't bet you can out shoot jack!

Ah! I don't play pool that well or shoot that well anymore. I just like doing both!

[ong45]

I used to play a lot of 9 ball ( 15 years ago). Had to give it up when my work schedule prevented me from playing at night.

Recently played with a buddy and it surprised me that approaching a shot at either game had a lot of similarities.

A couple of things that popped out...

Approaching the shot with certainty of purpose even though i haven't shot in years and was at the very least rusty. No second guessing or wondering if i was still capable of shooting.

Follow through, after taking such a long break i knew it was important to stay down and finish the stroke. We all know how important that is to pistol shooting, the parallels are uncanny.

I dindn't exactly kill it, but shot better than i expected.

[ammowaster]

I love shooting pool and agree that the mental aspect is very similar.

If I am tired or not focused I have to try much harder than I should to make a simple shot.

9 ball huh James

We will have to shoot a game one of these days

[JeffWard]

I play pool better after a few beers...

No... I don't think that's a good parallel...

LOL

Jeff

[dirtypool40]

I've posted before about playing pool, and the similarities to IPSC.

The toys, the puzzle solving, the million differnt levels there are, and the gunsmiths / custom cue makers who can create functional art.

I am no where near GM level in pool, they'd call that a Pro.

What we would would call a solid, national level Master, pool players call a "short stop"

Then they go into an "A,B" thing like we do.

I am currently struggling along at "B" level. For those that play league, I'm an 8 or 9, which is as high as that rating system goes. But, like the public perception about shooters, a "B" in either shooting or pool, would be someone the public thought was pretty strong. They don't even have a perception of "A" or above in either sport.

[Gameplayer]

I've posted before about playing pool, and the similarities to IPSC.

I'll have to do a search.

Love the 9-ball game. Won a few local tournaments while in the service but really slacked off since I separated. I never gave much thought about the similarities until I saw this thread. Thanks, Jack.

[JD45]

It's kind of fun to play pool with people who really can't shoot pool. Last year I was at a two week school for work, and all of us drank beer and shot pool nearly every night. I used to play a little ten years ago when a friend had a table at home. Even though I had not shot in ten years, I beat everyone so much they thought I was good. The truth is I suck at pool. I would barely be " D-class".

Trap is strange too. My first year shooting registered shoots I shot quite a few ninety-sixes, but never any higher. Then one day me and two friends went to a club that was known for a perfect blue-sky background. They were both dropping targets from the beginning, but somehow I ran the first 50. The wind picked up for the final two rounds and one friend was down quite a few. I even shot at birds that I could have turned down because they were not legal targets. I ended up with my first 100-straight. To this day, I have never shot a 97,98, or 99.

I wish there was a way to understand where my brain was that day. I honestly felt like I could not miss. We went on to shoot for a running pot of over $250 in handicap for the first 50-straight. I shot four twenty-fours and lost the money, but that 96 earned me a 1/2yd. punch and is still my highest in Handicap. You never forget days like that. There will be even better days in the future, and that's what keeps me shooting.

[HSMITH]

I haven't played much pool since I got out of the service, but I love it. I was decent and played hard.

You can draw all the same parallels with golf too. Truly one of the great games on earth.

[Graham Smith]

Same with a lot of sports. I used to bowl and shoot archery in leagues and found that if I made a mistake early on, I would then have trouble the rest of the game/match. It happened to me because I'd be too busy thinking about the mistake and that increased the likelihood I would make more mistakes. Shooting is even harder for me in that regard because there is not time after a bad shot to "shake it off" and refocus. Which then leads to a poor stage with even more mistakes.

The obvious "solution" is to only focus on the target immediately in front of you. Easy, right?

[j1b]

I haven't played much pool since I got out of the service, but I love it. I was decent and played hard.

You can draw all the same parallels with golf too. Truly one of the great games on earth.

Couldn't agree more. I see the most parallels with Golf.

Jack

[dirtypool40]

A lot of the best pool players are STRONG golfers.

I've got the bug pretty bad, am playing in a new "power league" and *GASP* traded some custom guns for cues recently.

I'll post pics when they arrive.

For you guys interested, find guys that play 10-ball and 1 Pocket.

1 Pocket is like chess on a pool table, with a million moves you often need a great stroke and creative brain to see and pull off.

10-ball is what most of the pros play now instead of 9-ball. It's still rotation pool, but the shape of the diamond rack, and breaking from the side rail has killed 9-ball at the high levels. Find the speed and you're 90% to make a ball.

I break pretty good by most standards, 24-25 on the radar gun, and stopping my rock. I have read the pros average 25. I made 5 balls on the break the other night (ok, so I scratched too, DOH!!). Breaking from the side rail I made the same corner ball something like 38 out of 43 breaks. Now that's a REALLY good night for me, but still, the shape of the 9-ball rack is flawed, and not a sufficient test of the top guys. (No, I am NOT one of the top guys).

10-ball, breaking from the center, you just have to crush them, they laugh at you, and cluster up. It's only one more ball, but the patterns are different, there are often no "lanes" to move in and you don't see racks strung in 10-ball nearly as often as you do in 9-ball.

Anyway, check it out, report back. "Playing the Ghost" is a great way to realize... "wow... 10-ball is TOUGH, I'm going back to 6-ball on the bar rag."

Edited February 15, 2009 by dirtypool40