Inaccurate with a 9mm, not with a .40 or .45

[ben b.]

I shoot my .40s and .45s pretty well, whether in a static target practice or a game situation. My 9mm shooting is not so good, a tendency to pull shots low and have generally wider groups, as I am learning to call shots I am seeing the sights dive with the 9mm. I only have one 9mm gun. When I really bear down and focus and let the gun recoil as it may, the groups are comparable. that tells me that it is driver error. But I am not seeing this in .40 or .45 work. I know that either way it is something to work out, but was curious if there is something about 9mm recoil impulse that is different?

Or is this uncommon, and just some idiosyncratic shooter error?

Thanks

Ben

[Steve J]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=18476&hl=

You may find some answers here.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Steve J

[Hi-Power Jack]

A couple of possibilities are that the trigger pull

and the sights on the 9mm are not as good as

on the other guns - I noticed that I shoot my

Gold Cup a lot more accurately than I do my

stock Browning Hi-Power 9mm. But, I suspect

that if my Gold Cup were a 9mm that it would

be just as accurate as the .45.

Last summer I lost my front sight during a match

and another shooter graciously lent me his

Beretta 9mm to shoot the match with, and for

some reason, even in single action mode, I kept

pulling the gun down and shooting very low with

the Beretta - still not sure why I did that, but it

was definitely me doing something wrong, that I

think I could have worked out with a little practice.

[Duane Thomas]

I have found that if I have to switch to a gun with a trigger pull significantly longer and/or heavier than what I'm really grooved-in on, I'll tend to pull shots low. I think the problem is that, though theoretically "every shot is supposed to be a surprise", the more highly skilled, highly trained shooters, especially those who are very habituated to one particular gun, and one particular length of weight and trigger pulls, DO know when the gun's going to go off. A lot of our timing of the gun is built around subconsciously applying the muscular pressure to the gun that will bring it back down out of recoil right to the exact same spot every time. But suddenly we're shooting a gun that has heavier trigger pulls - let's say, just for the sake of discussion, it's 4 pounds when we're used to 3 - we apply 3 pounds of presure, our mind says, "Okay, the gun's about to fire," automatically our body applies the skills we'd normally use to drive the gun.... Only we've still got another pound of trigger pull to go, still that minute fraction of a split instant from the gun firing. So we wind up "driving the gun" before it fires, and we pull the shot low.

(This is one reason that serious shooters tend to become such nitpicky "trigger queens" who are really focused on having the trigger pulls on all their guns, as much as possible, be the same. I will note, by the way, that trigger pulls with a sliding trigger like on a 1911 will always feel heavier than the same weight on a pivoting trigger. Thus I can go from a 3 pound trigger on a 1911 to a 4 pound trigger on a Glock without a problem. To me, a 3 pound trigger on a 1911 feels like a 4 pound trigger on a Glock.)

Something similar can happen when we go from a more heavily recoiling cartridge, like .40 or .45, to something with lighter recoil like a 9mm. Since our (as Matt Burkett puts it) "subconscious neuromuscular response" is habituated to pulling the gun back down after heavier recoil, with lighter recoil we overcompensate and wind up nosediving the gun.

[Singlestack]

To Duane's point, I broke the extractor in my #1 1911 Sunday and I just grabbed my backup. Backup has a 4lb trigger and #1 has a 2lb trigger. Next stage I wanked a 15 yard shot all the way to the ground at the base of the target. I saw it when the sight dipped and I felt it when I "drove the gun" before it fired. Parts are in the mail to make the triggers exactly the same.

[ben b.]

...Something similar can happen when we go from a more heavily recoiling cartridge, like .40 or .45, to something with lighter recoil like a 9mm. Since our (as Matt Burkett puts it) "subconscious neuromuscular response" is habituated to pulling the gun back down after heavier recoil, with lighter recoil we overcompensate and wind up nosediving the gun.

This is what I was wondering about. I guess this may be me. I was thinking in terms of habit rather than Burkett's habituated "subconscious neuromuscular response", but I guess I should get with the times.

Thanks

Ben

[gunnerBU]

Something similar can happen when we go from a more heavily recoiling cartridge, like .40 or .45, to something with lighter recoil like a 9mm. Since our (as Matt Burkett puts it) "subconscious neuromuscular response" is habituated to pulling the gun back down after heavier recoil, with lighter recoil we overcompensate and wind up nosediving the gun.

This was the exact thought that came to my mind when I read the original post. I don't know if you are switching between guns or not, but if you plan on staying with the 9 mm, you should be able to consistently shoot tighter groups after 500 rounds or so. As long as you don't keep switching back and forth between the larger calibers.

[el pres]

What Duane said !!!

I have the same problem when going from a 1911 back to my XD. It's the timing of the

gun and the trigger type. If you shoot it a lot more you'll start to adapt. One way to get

through it in a pinch, for me, is to put more finger in the trigger, up to the first joint, someone

suggested it and it works, but your learning another bad habit !!