MstngLX50 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 "I have it on good authority that one of the stages will be a call for fire. Start practicing your 9 Lines guys." Okay, as I've not heard this term before, I'm gonna guess it refers to a blind stage that you have to load for on the fly...? Help a brotha out will ya'? I was kidding, probably. I think we're unlikely to have artillery or CAS. If we do I'm guessing it'll be little birds and the rotary guys are pretty laid back, smoke on target and a frantic radio call should work. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Ahhh, 9 line. Don't I feel stupid now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm sorry. I mis-read your post. I thought you meant rounds shot on any stage (all rounds of any type to be shot) and not rounds of shot per stage. You are correct about the maximum number of shotgun rounds.Linda Chico (L-2035) Match Statistician Going back and re-reading my post I can see how the wording was confusing. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 9 Line is for the Air Farce. Standard Army Ranger CFF, (Call For Fire) B11, M69, Fire mission, over From my position, marked by strobe 2-7-0, 60 meters, Danger Close Troops in open Cleared Hot! M69, B11, Roger Winchester Mini and Rockets, engaging with M4 and Grenades. This was an actual Call For Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Here is the MINIMUM round count for the match....again. Rifle - 210 Pistol - 125 Shot - 65 Slug - 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 FM 6-30 is in use by grunts, crunchy or otherwise, and Jarheads. Zoomies just point and laugh (while trying not to spill their beer)... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 FM 6-30 is in use by grunts, crunchy or otherwise, and Jarheads. Zoomies just point and laugh (while trying not to spill their beer)...Alex You do know? Some people think that the Air force is a military service. Someone (US Crunchy Types) have to find the Targets so that you zippy types, have something to shoot at. and don't get hit by our rockets, Arty and Mortars. The sky is smaller than you want to know. Interservice rivalry you have got to love it! Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Heh! What "we", kemosabe? Air Farce fobbits stay in the rear with the gear while sending our zeros out to play in the unfriendly skies Well, except for our FAC...and most of us think they are not really chair force anyway Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Man, be gone for a couple weeks and a match changes the rules after my money is in. Don't care for the changes. Breach of contract anyone? Excessive doesn't even start to describe this scoring farce. The NRA is fair at what it does on the political stuff, but it has screwed every shooting sport it has ever touched. Hope this isn't a sign of things to come. PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cold Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) Don't care for the changes. Breach of contract anyone? You must have been asleep during your 1L year contracts course... when I registered the form did not appear to be a contract (using the term VERY loosely for the sake of replying your post) where things agreed to between the host/company and the individual were set in stone and unable to be adjusted or changed... thats just from what I remember when reading the "K" and not even reviewing it before posting here (registered back late Dec 08). Breach of contract would go no where in my "legal opinion" plus no one would actually take this to court... Edited March 15, 2009 by cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The last thing I want to be is a lawyer! Have no desire for the court experience. All games have rules and before we play we need to know these rules. Having read the rules before sending in said money I fulfilled my obligation to protect myself from a bad experience due to funky rules. Lets see how this would work with other sports. NASCAR You show up to run the standard counterclockwise (left turn) race and they say we think it would be fun to run clockwise (right turn), think that would fly. Football To now score a touchdown you have to cross the line only between the goal posts. Baseball For a home run you have to hit the ball over a 50 ft. section of the centerfield. All this after you have paid entrance fee's, travel expenses, and numerous practice sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 If yer decision making process is based on rules, perhaps you should choose another arena. Yes Sir, I made some changes and it has nothing to do with the match being full or the timing of my decision. Rules continue to evolve for every sport or game in order to challenge the champion. I am a one man squad and will attempt to provide a challenging, tough, course of fire that keeps you thinking. Oh yea, and I want you to have fun and learn something. I raised the standard, you never lower them, thinking outside the box. The rules are the same for everyone, nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cold Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) The last thing I want to be is a lawyer! Heh me too, not everyone goes to law school to be an attorney Now, this "sport" does not have defined rules across the board, there is outlaw matches etc, this match appears to conform to something now affiliated with the NRA which to my knowledge was NOT the case in Dec 2008. So they changed it up, to me IT HELPS our sport, not hinders it, I guess its all in perspective...some see it one way others in a narrow view, and yet still more in a wider spectrum for the future of the shooting sports. To me, having the NRA involved brings more to the table (hopefully) even if some changes result today which might be a small inconvience. It should hopefully be better for us all in the future by attracting more people into the GAME by the NRA involvement today. I noticed my recent NRA mag has a 3 gun article in it, good deal. Or maybe I am just dreaming, time will tell. Edited March 15, 2009 by cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Greg, I applaud your hard work and willingness to put on a match. I've "played in this arena" for quite some time and I have a feel for what works and what doesn't. Just hate to see another shooting sport ruined by NRA. Just to clarify, I'm a life member, certified instructor, and F-class participant with the NRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The rules are the same for everyone, nuff said. What does it matter if there is a 60 sec penalty for every non-A or 0-down hit? If everyone is subject to the same rules and scoring it seems to be a moot point.... If your interpritation of the scoring makes you feel that you will need to ensure yourself of all good hits then might this exercise not improve you as a shooter/competitor...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Perhaps what the problem is...is that with the NEW penalty structure now in place by this outlaw match, that this has become a STROLLING BULLSEYE MATCH, and not a...tactical...match in any other way but name I agree, the NRA ruins everything it touches, including (now) 3-Gun. Posting rules and then radically changing them after the entries are in, vacation time is scheduled, travel arrangements are made...is a foul. Some tweaking is always expected with the outlaw matches, but changing from two hits on paper to two hits on paper plus up to eight second in penalties is not. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxcuse73 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We shot our local 3-gun today and I'll be at Larue with bells on. Hey guys I'm sure they would probably let you out of your "contract" and maybe if you're nice about it refund your money. I know of at least 5 shooters chomping at the bit to go that would be glad to get a call from Larue saying that 2 or 3 spots opened up. I agree if the rules are the same for everyone it's a moot point. I like some of the 20sec. penalties for misses on long range targets so much that I incorporated them into our 3gun match with my club today. You should have seen how it slowed some guys down and made them work to get all there hits. Besides what makes you think it's only going to be a "strolling bullseye match" (hope I quoted ya right, sorry) instead of being tactical. Nobody's even seen the stages yet! I know I'm probably goin to get it stirred up again, but after the in depth match we had today, which was only 6 stages, I know what it takes to setup, sanction, and put on a match like this and I applaud everyone that is involved with doing it. It's getting close and I'm getting siked up! See ya there. PS. I'll bring extra kleenex for the whiners. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Dear Sir Mr No excuse JV Fill in your profile to allow those who need a Kleenex to make sure they can find you and know who you are...... Signed Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) The rules are the same for everyone, nuff said. What does it matter if there is a 60 sec penalty for every non-A or 0-down hit? If everyone is subject to the same rules and scoring it seems to be a moot point.... If your interpritation of the scoring makes you feel that you will need to ensure yourself of all good hits then might this exercise not improve you as a shooter/competitor...? Ken, If a shooter does not have the visual patience or the ability to shoot points/As during a match, do you honestly think changing the rules is now going to make him a better shooter? It starts long before the match, the match is a test of those skills. No matter how the rules change, the order of finish will stay the same. The best shooters will always finish at the top. More rules are just more rules. Should have tried this new system at some local matches and work out the glitches before implementing it into a major match. Just made scoring it a nightmare for the stats person. Puting out applications, taking competitiors money and then changing the rules is not forward thinking. Implementing these changes BEFORE the applications were sent out would be considered forward thinking. I really wanted to shoot this match, but had prior comittments. Doesn't bother me now that I can't make it. Irregardless, best intentions aside, you guys (shooters) are still the best people in the world!! Have fun, shoot fast and straight, that's what it is supposed to be all about anyway. Guess I'll see some of your sorry asses at the MGM Iron Man. Regards, Jack Travers SFC, US Army (Ret) 5th SFG(A) Edited March 16, 2009 by Jack T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGDM Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just to make this clear one more time... This is a NRA sanctioned competition. The NRA in no way, shape of form had anything to do with the scoring, stages, penalties, format. I chose to use the NRA TPC target because I like it. I wrote the rules. I designed the stages. The NRA has NOT "ruined" anything, they are here to support 3 Gun and competitors. I greatly appreciate any and all feedback. A critical element of any mission or event is the debrief/After Action Review, that is how we get mo betta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Ken,If a shooter does not have the visual patience or the ability to shoot points/As during a match, do you honestly think changing the rules is now going to make him a better shooter? It starts long before the match, the match is a test of those skills. No matter how the rules change, the order of finish will stay the same. The best shooters will always finish at the top. More rules are just more rules. Should have tried this new system at some local matches and work out the glitches before implementing it into a major match. Just made scoring it a nightmare for the stats person. Puting out applications, taking competitiors money and then changing the rules is not forward thinking. Implementing these changes BEFORE the applications were sent out would be considered forward thinking. I really wanted to shoot this match, but had prior comittments. Doesn't bother me now that I can't make it. Irregardless, best intentions aside, you guys (shooters) are still the best people in the world!! Have fun, shoot fast and straight, that's what it is supposed to be all about anyway. Guess I'll see some of your sorry asses at the MGM Iron Man. Regards, Jack Travers SFC, US Army (Ret) 5th SFG(A) And please don't worry about the stats. I am using my 'custom' scoring program (tested at Ft Benning, Blue Ridge, All Army, Ft. Campbell, and numerous other matches), and it is easily modified to adjust points or penalties to suit the changes. You do your stuff on the range. Stats will be fine. Linda Chico Match Statistician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yes Ma'am. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 You are not listening to the top shooters and other match directors now, when we tell you RIGHT NOW that your scoring system is flawed...what makes us think that you are going to listen later? This match like...being offered a hamburger, and after paying for the hamburger, being handed tofu. Dramatically changing the rules after they were posted and the match announced (and filled) to suit an agenda, private or otherwise, is wrong. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsound Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 FYI, as best I can tell, the original version of the rules as posted on Nov. 8th (post #1 by Greg) included the 2 and 4 second penalties for C and D hits. That part of the rules appears to have remained consistent throughout. I for one am stoked to see what he has in store for us. The only affect those rules will really have is making the spread larger between those who do well and those who don't. I doubt it will have any affect on order of finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxcuse73 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Merlin it won't be hard to spot me at the match, but I'll hang the box of snivel paper off my gear in case someone feels a whine coming on suddenly All these food analogies are making me hungry. I said the same thing earlier in the thread, that better shooters will finish better and the others will fall in line down the list. Props to the awesome set of match sponsors especially HOOOOOOOTERS! JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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