Black Dog M 261 mags

[mwx40x40]

Black Dog has 27 round 22lr mags for Atcheinson Ciener, but what is the M261 they sale?

[Derek45]

the M261 was a different design. the original mags inserted into a USGI mag.

[fastshooter03]

The M261 is a military 22 conversion kit that drops into the upper of most ARs(replacing the BCA) and has full size 10 rd mags.

I just received a few of the black dog 25 rd mags for my M261. Hopefully they will work right.

The difference from these to the ciener version is that these have feed ramps on the mag. The ciener version doesn't.

Hopefully I can try these out soon and report.

Nick

[M118LR]

Who sells the Black dog mags? I have a M261 conversion and could use one of the mags.

[fastshooter03]

I tried the mags yesterday and I guess I should have read the directions.

Oh, that's right, they didn't have any.

I don't know if the M261 kit has been upgraded or what but the black dog mags will require a big step to be cut out in the front and then you'll have to cut an angle on the m261 bolt to clear the mag follower.

Unless I've been missinformed about the conversion kit I have, these mags are definitely not a drop-in fit.

The kit I have comes with the white full size 10 rd mags. It was purchased as a used Air Force kit.

The front of the mag will hit the bottom of the chamber plug on the kit. You'll need to relieve the mag a LOT. It's best to measure and use a mill but a grinder will get the job done.

When you get it to fit the last few rounds in the mag will start catching on the bottom of the bolt where a step is located. The original mags have a follower that comes rearward much further than the BDM mags so it isn't a problem with the originals.

I'm going to machine an angle on the front of the step as I don't see why it is even there other than to push the next round in the mag downward?. Hopefully this week I'll get it machined.

I haven't loaded the BDM mags to capacity yet.

So far very disappointed in this project.

Nick

[Garrett]

Unless I've been missinformed about the conversion kit I have, these mags are definitely not a drop-in fit.

Not sure what vintage your M261 kit is, but I've not had any fitting problems with mine. I have a new M261 manufactured by Olympic and came with one BD mag. That one and all of the others that I've ordered fit just fine.

I think the kit still needs a little break-in as I still get some malfunctions - mostly failures to feed.

But no problems with fit like you describe.

[fastshooter03]

I was thinking that was the case. Mine is probably vietnam era. That means it's worth more right?

Nick

[DMS42]

I tried the mags yesterday and I guess I should have read the directions.

Oh, that's right, they didn't have any.

I don't know if the M261 kit has been upgraded or what but the black dog mags will require a big step to be cut out in the front and then you'll have to cut an angle on the m261 bolt to clear the mag follower.

Unless I've been missinformed about the conversion kit I have, these mags are definitely not a drop-in fit.

The kit I have comes with the white full size 10 rd mags. It was purchased as a used Air Force kit.

The front of the mag will hit the bottom of the chamber plug on the kit. You'll need to relieve the mag a LOT. It's best to measure and use a mill but a grinder will get the job done.

When you get it to fit the last few rounds in the mag will start catching on the bottom of the bolt where a step is located. The original mags have a follower that comes rearward much further than the BDM mags so it isn't a problem with the originals.

I'm going to machine an angle on the front of the step as I don't see why it is even there other than to push the next round in the mag downward?. Hopefully this week I'll get it machined.

I haven't loaded the BDM mags to capacity yet.

So far very disappointed in this project.

Nick

The Air Force conversion kits are not the same as the Army M261 conversion kits. And if I remember right the AF kits wouldn't work with the M261 mags. Even though I was in the Air Guard we used the M261 kits for several reasons. One was that if they broke we could take them back to Ft. Lewis and get new or repaired used ones. And two--they worked better than the Air Force kits.

[Ledge]

Are they the correct mags for these?

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/downloads/newfor2008.jpg

[wsimpso1]

One comment about the BDM mags in general: Never take any solvent stronger than water and soap near these mags. They are polycarbonate and WILL crack if exposed to any gun cleaning solvents, alcohols, acetone, etc;

Some comments about BDM mags and the Colt conversion:

The BDM feed lips interfere with the Colt bolt;

BDM mags have no ejector (the ejector is on the left feed lip);

BDM mags have no alignment pin between the mag and the adapter (which appears to be needed).

Significant mods are needed to make the Colt bolt clear the feed lips and to add an ejector and alignment pin to the mags. All of this is made harder by the fact that solvents in many adhesives cause cracking in the mag... Better to just buy the Ceiner/Atchisson/Whatever designs that work well with the BDM mags.

Billski

Billski

[fastshooter03]

Are they the correct mags for these?

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/downloads/newfor2008.jpg

THose mags look like they're made by BDM. THey have a 27 rd capacity so the ones I have probably wouldn't work.

I guess I'll have to sell my mags or buy an Olympic kit.

Nick

[RevolverJockey]

Don't shy away from the Oly kit. Mine is going strong and pushing up 25K. I did polish the throat open a little on the kit, but after the first few mags, I went over 8k without even taking the kit out all through the same uncleaned mag.

One word of warning. When you are ready to shift back to full power, don't just clean the barrel/chamber, go back out and shoot it - two reasons: 1) The gas tube is all crudded up, takes a few rounds to get everything blown in the receiver and to get the bolt to fully cycle. 2) The comp gets really full. I found it easy just using .223 to clean it, but it blows crap everywhere and the first 15 rounds or so look like black powder.

Feel free to PM me if anyone was any questions about these kits, I am about an hour from there and know the guys at Oly pretty well.

Lee

Edited December 23, 2008 by Mitch_Rapp.45

[photog]

As far as I can remember, the M261 conversion that I had would ONLY work with the mag inserts. The ciener is a different animal and ONLY works with mags made for that kit. Mixing them up will result in failures.

[cking]

THis is from the "the complete guide to ar-15 accuracy" by Derrick Martin & Barrett Tillman of Accuarcy Speaks.

The Ciener/Atchisson kit

Colt kits

Army 261 uses 10 round magazine insert

Air Force Kit, uses large white 10 round mags and locks bolt back on last round.

Very good section on how to tune all of these different kits, Accuracy speaks makes barrels for all of them so you don't have to use a chamber adapter. Lots of pics also.

So if your think of doing a dedicated 22lr upper, buy the book and then scan the forums.