.40 Caliber Hand Grenade

[Hardball1911]

.2 grains less than a starting load is not near enough of a light charge of 231 to cause an issue.

Weak cases are what caused the issue.

The same gun fires the same load today for my now 14 year old. Same barrel, same frame, etc.

Now, had I been 2 whole grains short, might be a different story. The starting point on 231 with a 230 gr fmj listed shows that they recieved 697 fps. This was my starting point for a then 12 year old. We bumped it down .2 grains from there to make 147 pf.

Most of the at risk cases that I culled out (the entire batch that they sent me when I ordered new.) had thin case walls. I measured at the time, but being two years ago can't remember what they were. They were, however, several thousanths thinner than mil-spec recommendations. I imagine that when they went into new ammunition, they started off thin. Having been manipulated through the different case sizing techniques that they certainly would have been subject to, they thinned even more to a point that they were dangerous. What is the one measurement that is most often neglected? The thickness of the case walls.

[Harmon]

never had a 45 case head fail, ever! over 20,000 rounds loaded and fired with only few cracked case necks.

I think the 45 being a large case, and people loading fast powders with small charge weights and heavy bullets are inviting a double charge.

one thing i dont do is try to make one gun something that it is not...like make the 45 kick like a 9mm.

165pf is the lowest i load the 45 to. 130 for the 9mm.

if i want or need less, i get a different gun.

downloading the big boys to make puff puff guns is like driving a city bus to work every morning...its not what it was designed to do.

a 9mm would be a better starting point for a smaller person.

jacketed bullets at less than 700 fps is inviting bore obstructions...which are one of the big causes of KBs.

load safe, shoot safe

[Carlos]

I am with Duane here: "Thus far - and we're talking over decades here - they've all failed, and thus any credentialled ballistician will tell you the phenomenon doesn't exist and is instead an excuse for a double charge. "

I believe Vihta Vouri also had a paragraph in their manual to the effect that after extensive testing there was no evidence supporting the existance of this phenomenon, though I no longer have a V V manual. Anyone remember that one? If not, I guese its time to have my lead levels checked again. Its fun to believe in Bigfoot, LockeNess monster, space aliens, JFK, etc. but until there is reliable evidence of the phenomenon, it does not exist.

As for .45 brass, I agree a head seperation is odd considering the low pressure; I would guese a weak case was responsible. BTW, we have an old, full auto Thompson SMG that we rent out at work; the blowback action leaves a strange mark that looks like a "stretch mark" right around the case head. Perhaps firing .45 brass through a blow-back gun could waeken .45 and cause a seperation?

D.

[Patrick Sweeney]

This thread brings to mind an experience I had with a customers gun and load. He wanted to load his 10mm to a non-magnum level. He also wanted to do it with the powders at hand. So he extrapolated across calibers and powders to settle on a load that "should work."

And blew a case in the first magazine. So I tried his ammo, and blew a case. (A blown case in a steel-framed 10mm, one an S&W 1026, the other a Colt Delta Elite, is not exactly fun, but not too disconcerting.) I then went home and loaded his exact load, weighing and visually inspecting each charge, visually inspecting each bullet and its seating, crimp, etc. There was absolutely no possibility of a double charge, dual bullets, etc. the brass was twice-fired, once factory and once with my own, known safe, moderate pressure load. No chance of tired brass being involved.

I blew two cases in two magazines.

When I called Hodgden, the ballistician knew exactly which powder I was using, before I mentioned it. "There is a reason we don't list that powder in 10mm." He said.

There are some combinations of powder and caliber that just don't go together. Pay particular attention to the data published by powder makers. They do not leave some combinations unpublished because they are lazy.

[Religious Shooter]

Yah... but don't you think they should have some kind of note saying "Don't use this powder in X"? What was the combo that caused the KB's in 10mm?

[davidwiz]

On page 52 of Vihta Vuori's reloading guide, they have a warning for people making the ultra light loads that the SASS folks like, warning of pressure inexcess of the maximum and underload detonation.

[Unleashed]

Just to add another warning here....when I first starting reloading .40 on a single stage press, I had two case head separations in my glock 35. I had two extractors hit me right in the eye (lense that is!). Both case heads were recovered and both had a stamp from the same manufacturer. PMC! I later started using a 1050 for all of my loading. Due to the complexity of each cycle, which I wasn't really familiar with, I ended up double charging a round one day! This made for something very interesting. I happened to be shooting over a chrono that day and probably made one of the highest power factors ever from a .40! My 205gr lead bullet left the muzzle at 1182fps. Even more to everyone's suprise once they came up from cover, after such a large explosion, was the case we found that had ejected cleanly from the Glock barrel. It had a nice symetrical swell where the case meats the unsupported portion of the barrel, but it was completely intact! The headstamp?.....Winchester. I haven't used anything since!

[Flexmoney]

I won't use PMC either!

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Well, I have used .40sw PMC and Federal brass exclusively over the last year loading 180 rnfp plated bullets with WST to 170+pf and have had zero case related issues. I'll take all of the PMC brass you want to dispose of......