Mayonaise Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 FTDR's are and should be difficult to hand out. Attitude often will play into "judgement calls". The procedural probably was earned. Since moving the barrel didn't "gain" you an advantage I don't see where a FTDR fits. That said, there are stages in IDPA that do require you to shoot from prone. The 2002 Nationals had one as well as the 2002 Southern Regionals. If you can't physically perform the required task for a COF, perhaps you should rethink even participating. Who should adapt for who? Take all challenging COF's because a shooter "may" show up that has disability? Same thing about the knee pads. If you can wear knee pads you can wear long pants over them. Don't like it? Leave it. Shoot the other sport. You can't please everybody. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 Mark: Moving the barrel was done as a practical joke and yes it did gain me a huge advantage. The FTDR was not only deserved, I worked very hard to earn it. This was all done in a light hearted atmosphere for fun and no one took any of it seriously. I should have put this thread in the humor forum. As for a shooter just leaving the sport (IDPA or IPSC) if they can't physically perform, now that's just plain crap. Anyone who can't physically perform is not going to be a threat to the rest of the field and there are (and should continue to be) rules that will accomodate those shooters. My two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougBarnes101 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Ron, Wish I would have been there to see that. It sounds like it would have been hilarious. Maybe a FTDR was deserved but so was some credit for coming up with the coolest way to overcome the challenge. Rhino, Maybe you should counter that if you place and he hands out the shot for no score he could write it out on the money you kicked in to shoot the match. I don't see how knee pads can give anybody a substantial advantage. The real speedsters knees hardly touch the ground before they have shot, reloaded and are on their way again. Not like an old fat boy like me with knees that grind without bending. Oh well if it's the rules its the rules. If you shoot it good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Ron, you are a class act!!! I wish I had been there to see that one. Nice of you to act up and get +20 sec. so somebody else can win HOA for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Mark:As for a shooter just leaving the sport (IDPA or IPSC) if they can't physically perform, now that's just plain crap. Anyone who can't physically perform is not going to be a threat to the rest of the field and there are (and should continue to be) rules that will accomodate those shooters. My two cents worth. I disagree. A MD has three obligations when designing stages. 1) safety 2) IDPA rules 3) IDPA COF design rationale If your handicap or physical condition doesn't allow you to perform a stage without having to change the stage just for you how is that fair to the other shooters? If we followed your concept we would never have "car" scenarios etc... Bottom line is that If you can't go prone or take a knee, you shouldn't be shooting IDPA or IPSC bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 We have one local shooter who can go to a knee but can't get back up. He usually asks ahead of time if he can take a 3 second procedural and stand. I have always allowed it when I SO. One of the IDPA Course Design Rules says: "Course designers MUST refrain from designing courses of fire that will substantially disadvantage senior and mobility-challenged shooters." That means we shouldn't have any walls to climb etc. It doesn't mean we should ignore good use of cover. I would think if someone wants to wear kneepads then they should wear long pants. I don't think that is too much to ask. All shooting sports have rules. We don't always agree with the rules but they should be followed. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Mayo, So,,,,you're saying if someone has a problem that limits for instance their range of motion in a joint they shouldn't particpate.....though they'd be fine to do probably 95+% of the other activities needed to compete???????? If these people have a real problem,,,,there's a chance their limitation is already hindering their performance in some manner,,,,it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to participate because a limitation doesn't necessarily imply a safety issue. I'm a BIG man, I have some knee problems and occasionally gout that flares up (don't ask,,,,I'm too young for this crap), I generally grin bear it and play by all the rules,,,,guys I shoot with regularly know its a bitch for me to get into some shooting positions,,,,,that's OK,,,,if I'm standing and moving in pretty straight lines, I'm generally kickin' butt,,,,but my struggles with mobility does not mean I'm unsafe and will not stop me from participating. My mobility problems already cost me plenty in terms of being competitive,,,,,"if" I have to ask for an accomodation, I expect to pay a penalty that would take away any advantage gained. Seeing how I'm already slow,,,,I'm already losing time against guys with better mobility. I've never had to ask for this,,,,,because I will always do everything I can to solve the shooting problem in the same manner as everyone else. As long as that is within the rules, the penalty is fair, and negates any "advantage", I just have trouble seeing the problem,,,,,fat guy (me)is already behind the eight ball to start and gets a penalty to boot, if it takes more than that to beat me,,,,,I'm feeling pretty damn good about myself. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The initial intent of this thread has been lost and the discussion that there was of it has degenerated. I am locking it. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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