What procedurals/penalty would I earn for....

[SDM]

Boo,

How long do you think it will take to "thread the needle"? Is it really worth 10 points?

[dajarrel]

Even though this is a hypothetical question, I'll still give what I believe the non-hypothetical answer would be.

It should never make it to the match. Why? Because the RO's, who typically shoot it the day before are as much a gaming bunch as we all are. That being the case, I'm sure the ignoring of the needle would have come up and a lively discussion would have followed which would have (should have) resulted in throwing out the needle or putting in the WSB the exact penalty involved.

Of course, sometimes things slip through. Did anyone learn how not to carry an ammo can (suitcase) at last years Nationals at Tulsa?

Worse case, it comes up on the last squad of the day and the stage gets tossed. Best case......everyone puts on their Betsy Ross needle-threading boots and follows the WSB exactly as written.

FWIW

dj

[boo radley]

Boo,

How long do you think it will take to "thread the needle"? Is it really worth 10 points?

SDM, I don't know.... 22 rounds, with some movement....Let's say without the needle, I could shoot 90% of the points in 21 seconds, for a guess, for a 4.7hf. If I take a 10pt procedural that goes down to 4.2. But if the task adds 5 seconds, that's a *3.8* hf. By my rough math, if threading the needle, or whatever, takes longer than 3 seconds, you'd be better off skipping it, if it only costs 10 points, no? Especially if there's some disaster potential, like dropping the needle....

So if the WSB states a specific penalty for not accomplishing something specified, that trumps the "or significant advantage gained" issue? It would see to me it would, otherwise why specifically list the procedural?

[scribble]

I can give you a good one that we just ran across last month.

Start in box A with both hands holding can, can must be deposited on pole near T3 before last shot. Steel must be shot from box A.

This was a good one for people to read closely. The squad I was with read it several times and realized that there would be only 1 procedural since it had to be before the last shot fired. The other squads that day spent the time to hold the bucket until depositing on the pole after shooting strong hand steel. We tossed the bucket on start signal.

Only 1 procedural beats the time waisted putting the bucket on the pole and shooting strong hand only.

[Fireant]

Yep, the same here. The letter in the last front sight was about my club, and one of my stages. You had to deposit the teddy bear in the bucket about 10 yards to the left of the starting position before shoting. I had only 1 procedural in the WSB to give people a choice. Do I run it down or toss it on the beep. The internal struggles I saw were worth the price of addmission( I was a sociology major in college). In reality the average Joe will shoot themselves in the foot, because they are so pumped about the advantage they gained. I saw people save the time to run down to the left only to bobble two reloads, shoot the gun dry, run the gun faster than they can see the sights etc. If you have never thrown a stage like this into your match, try it some time. I'm a people watcher and I loved every moment of every shooter going through the stage.

[ima45dv8]

I like watching people, too. But at a shooting match, I'd rather watch them shoot.

On-the-clock activities that aren't about shooting don't hold much interest for me.

YMMV...

[Fireant]

It's all about solving a puzzle on the clock.

[Skizeks]

M I C K E Y M O U S E

Somebody has way too much time on there hands. Unless the needle is six feet tall and has an eye in it the size of a tire, what's the point? No one in their right mind is going to even try it! Take the procedural and go.

Too many range lawyers. Example If the WSB says gun is lying on the table unloaded. The table is six feet in front of the shooter. At the beep walk on your hands to the table. AT THE BEEP WHAT DO YOU DO?

Extreme Monkey Motion!!

Have a good day Duane

[bruce282]

I agree with Fireant, it's part of solving a puzzle. Same as a stage that has targets that can be engaged from both near and far. Is it worth the xx seconds it takes to run to the close position vs taking the shots further back?

The OP used the thread the needle as an example. Suppose instead you're sitting at a table with a stuffed toy in your hand, and your loaded gun on the table. The WSB tells you deposit the toy in a box before drawing and engaging target. The box is 10 yards behind you. One PE if the toy isn't in the bos before the first shot. Do you run back and forth to the box, do you toss it over your shoulder and hope, or just leave it and pick up the gun and go.

Solve the puzzle. BTW this was a stage at a monthly match around here, most folks tossed the toy over their shoulder and went.

Bruce