Ultimate Retention Device for flashlights

[dapribek]

The legality of using this innovative flashlight ring during a no light stage was brought up this weekend. Is there anything in the IDPA rule book that would prohibit the use of this accessory on one's flashlight? The product was written up in the IDPA Tactical Journal Volume 10, Issue 1 by Robert Ray. It seemed as if he recommended it highly to IDPA shooters. Any thing conclusive out there? Thanks.

[Steve J]

As long as the Match Director of whatever IDPA match you're shooting a no light stage in doesn't have a bias and hasn't committed it in writing in the stage description, you can use any handheld flashlight using any method you want.

IDPA rules DO NOT address low light / no light stages.

IDPA rules DO NOT address the use of handheld flashlights in IDPA matches.

IDPA rules DO state that you absolutely cannot shoot with a gun mounted light attached to your gun. That's considered to be the same as a barrel weight, a competitive advantage.

Get what you want and learn to use it well. It can save your life, and will be fun in night matches.

[freeidaho]

At our club, you can use lanyards, whatever, as long as the flashlight is stowed in a pouch or a pocket at the start signal and the hands are naturally at ones sides. That is, you have put on the contraption on the clock. No one I know walks around at night with their flashlight in their hand using one of these devices.

After people hear that it can't be "worn" at the beep, they pretty much don't care about the whiz bang flashlight do-dads.

kr

[Hot Brass]

I won one of these devices at the Carolina Cup a few years ago. I tried it a few times at our indoor match where we shoot low/no light stages. If you are a cop or someone who uses a flashlight and gun regularly, it probably has some value. Otherwise, it is just a transfer device...

[Steve J]

At our club, you can use lanyards, whatever, as long as the flashlight is stowed in a pouch or a pocket at the start signal and the hands are naturally at ones sides. That is, you have put on the contraption on the clock. No one I know walks around at night with their flashlight in their hand using one of these devices.

After people hear that it can't be "worn" at the beep, they pretty much don't care about the whiz bang flashlight do-dads.

kr

+1 That's how we do it too.

[rvb]

No one I know walks around at night with their flashlight in their hand using one of these devices.

Ok, I don't use that device or particularly like "gadgets", BUT have you ever left a show that the wife dragged you to in downtown Baltimore after sundown? Flashlight in one hand, Kershaw in the other. Starting position: hands in jacket pockets. I love the idpa rational "NO ONE does X because I/we dont."

As long as it's in the stage brief I'll start how ever you tell me cause it's all just a game. Just don't assume your methods are my methods and ding me after the fact... put it in the brief. I may not know "club tactics." (not saying you or your club doesn't, but 'been there done that, wasn't given the reshoot').

just another 2c to keep in mind, or lose in the sofa cushions.

-rvb

Edited March 18, 2008 by rvb

[Steve J]

Yet another thread that mentions IDPA is starting to turn into a "just itching to bash IDPA moment."

[freeidaho]

Ok, I don't use that device or particularly like "gadgets", BUT have you ever left a show that the wife dragged you to in downtown Baltimore after sundown? Flashlight in one hand, Kershaw* in the other. Starting position: hands in jacket pockets. I love the idpa rational "NO ONE does X because I/we dont."

As long as it's in the stage brief I'll start how ever you tell me cause it's all just a game. Just don't assume your methods are my methods and ding me after the fact... put it in the brief. I may not know "club tactics." (not saying you or your club doesn't, but 'been there done that, wasn't given the reshoot').

* no carry permits in b-more and I didn't know if there'd be detectors at the show or it would be the j-frame instead of knife.

just another 2c to keep in mind, or lose in the sofa cushions.

-rvb

Ryan,

Hold on there big fella. My post did not tell you what to do or not do or what IDPA's rationale is for anything. It merely stated a fact. I know no one that uses one of these for daily use, they only show up at night matches.... somehow. In fact, only about 5% of the people that I know that carry, even carry a flashlight. More facts. Not a declaration of what you do, or should do, or what IDPA thinks about it. The folks that have shown up at our night matches with similar devices freely admit that they do not use them for everyday carry, they were specifically bought to be used in our night match. Another true statement, not a declaration of what you do, should do, shouldn't do, or what IDPA wants you to do.

Personally, I think it is a clever device. If I knew 2 minutes before the SHTF, I would put one on. Wait, no I wouldn't I'd run the other way.

kr

Edited March 18, 2008 by freeidaho

[jmorris]

As Steve points out the IDPA rule book doesn’t say anything about the device you are asking about. However, P.8 C1. “Competitors will not attempt to circumvent or compromise the spirit or rational of any stage either by the use of inappropriate devices, equipment or techniques.”

So the MD could view the flashlight ring the same as using a magnetic belt buckle to stow a magazine during a tac-load. The one thing you have going for you is that it will be dark when you pull it out of your pocket. FWIW I’ve seen many used before.

[rvb]

Hold up guys.

Steve, I was in no way trying to bash idpa and freeidaho, I was not trying to attack you. Honest. I'm sorry that's how I came accross. I specifically said "not saying you or your club" to indicate I was not directing my comments at you but at things I've seen and experienced where "tactics" and start positions were assumed to be common knowledge. I was specifically trying to do the OPPOSITE and say that I don't know what's "right or wrong" (and frankly I don't care about "tactics"); I just want to do what's in the stage description so it's ALL good so long as it's known up front.

The answer to the original poster's question should be "Their are no idpa rules against them, however their usefullness depends on the stage description."

I'll freely admit I don't use 95% of my idpa gear for "everyday carry." That doesn't change the legality of it. (My flashlight might be the only 5% that does transfer over.)

See ya on the range (or not if it's a dark match ).

-rvb

Edited March 18, 2008 by rvb

[MichiganShootist]

Bob Vogel just won the IDPA Indoor Nationals (best score of all shooters) in Springfield a few weeks back........ and he used the same exact ring you are asking about... so it obviously must be "legal".

[Chills1994]

Steven J wrote:

Yet another thread that mentions IDPA is starting to turn into a "just itching to bash IDPA moment."

What?

You haven't noticed that before?

Any time an IDPA rules question comes up on this forum it quickly de-volves into an IDPA bashing thread.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that some of that is from some die hard USPSA'er who are anti-IDPA and get their kicks coming in here to stir the pot.

Maybe?

Possibly?

Me? I come from the "it's better to ask forgiveness than for permission" camp. So if the rulebook does NOT specifically forbid it, then you're good to go.

Hmmmn... maybe there will be some rules added to next revision that deal with flashlights and their use.

OR, they'll just come right out and say "no more dark/low light matches above the local level" and avoid all this flashlight equipment race entirely.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Chills1994

[rvb]

Wow.

Since I seem to be the "antagonist" in this thread causing all these problems, let's air the laundry...

I'm not anti-idpa.

I AM an IDPA shooter.

I'm not a die-hard uspsa'er.

I AM a uspsa shooter.

I'm not trying to pot stir.

I'm not even "rule bashing."

I AM offering a somewhat different perspective (very slight at that).

This thread is the first I've seen this device.

Let's see, how best to say it all? ...

The device is not illegal. Using it is not illegal. Start positions/conditions should be defined in the stage brief (preferably written if it's a 'major' match). I hardly see how it can be construed to "circumvent or compromise the spirit" of idpa. Gamey? I dunno. Not real world? I dunno. Am I bashing the game which I have played for 7+ yrs? I guess I dunno that either. Am I allowed to offer different perspectives? Guess not.

dapribek, I'm sorry your question became so complicated.

As I always say.. when in doubt about how equipment or a plan will be perceived, ask the SO.

-rvb

Edited March 18, 2008 by rvb

[Steve J]

Ryan, we believe you. It's just we see it so often. I keyed on I love the idpa rational "NO ONE does X because I/we dont." As long as it's in the stage brief I'll start how ever you tell me cause it's all just a game. Just don't assume your methods are my methods and ding me after the fact... put it in the brief. I may not know "club tactics." as the opening of the next bash, not so much that you personally were bashing, but thinking where it would go from there.

Sorry, man. I too enjoy both and respect the rules of both.

[Shawn Knight]

[Chills1994]

That's funny stuff ^^^ right there. I don't care who you are.

where do I get a popcorn eating emoticon of my own?

Can I get one that drinks a beer with the other hand too?

Nahhh... Ryan, I never said you were anti-IDPA.

I'm just saying that it's been my experience/observation that any IDPA rules question that get brought up on the Brian Enos forum (a vast majority of which are USPSA shooters) that the threads go downhill quick.

[Steve J]

That's funny stuff ^^^ right there. I don't care who you are.

where do I get a popcorn eating emoticon of my own?

Right click on it and "Save as" to your pooter. You'll have to upload it to photobucket or some other photo hosting site, then you can insert it as a picture into a thread.