627 PC-5": suggested reloads

[mccoy]

Hi all,

this is my first post in these boards. Italy, old Europe, is my place.

I'm an absolute beginner with revos and handguns in general.

at the beginning of this year I decided I would start shooting an handgun. I went to the local range, rented the only revolver they have, an old S&W 686 and shot so far about 800 rounds. I'm definitely a revolver guy, just shot a semi in .40 S&W and hated it.

I noticed I can be pretty good at it with some practice. My groupings in slow fire at 15 yds start being not too shabby.

I've also been browsing the gun fora. I soon realized my handgun is the 627PC-8 shots 5" barrel. I ordered it yesterday, chambered in .357 mag.

Now, I'd like to start handloading while I'm waiting for it. May be I'm OT, but in the reloading section almost every post was on 9mm's in semiauto. So, I beg your pardon but I decided this was the right forum.

I've 800 once-fired (with the 686) .38 special cases.

I got 158 grains hard-cast SWC bullets (only choice from the shelves of the local gunshop).

I also got N340 VV powder.

I'll take winchester primers.

They suggested I start with 5 grs loads, the suggestion was general though and not specific to the 627 gun.

Please note: right now I'm only into paper punching, at 15 yards distance, later on I'll try 25 yards out.

My questions:

what would be your suggested loads with the specified SWC 158 gs hard-cast bullets, in 38 special?

I may change the VV 340 powder to another more suited, better if VV because other brands may not be available here. I'll check for availability anyway.

Any other successful combination you experimented with the 627 in .38 sp would be great. I can order any other type of bullets, subject to avalaibility.

Looking forward to your insight!!

Edited March 4, 2008 by mccoy

[Revopop]

My Model 14 really liked 3.9 gr of VV N320 with a 158gr. plated bullet. Very accurate, very clean.

Check out the Vihtavuori reloading manual. It's free, and you can trust the data.

Hi all,

this is my first post in these boards. Italy, old Europe, is my place.

I'm an absolute beginner with revos and handguns in general.

at the beginning of this year I decided I would start shooting an handgun. I went to the local range, rented the only revolver they have, an old S&W 686 and shot so far about 800 rounds. I'm definitely a revolver guy, just shot a semi in .40 S&W and hated it.

I noticed I can be pretty good at it with some practice. My groupings in slow fire at 15 yds start being not too shabby.

I've also been browsing the gun fora. I soon realized my handgun is the 627PC-8 shots 5" barrel. I ordered it yesterday, chambered in .357 mag.

Now, I'd like to start handloading while I'm waiting for it. May be I'm OT, but in the reloading section almost every post was on 9mm's in semiauto. So, I beg your pardon but I decided this was the right forum.

I've 800 once-fired (with the 686) .38 special cases.

I got 158 grains hard-cast SWC bullets (only choice from the shelves of the local gunshop).

I also got N340 VV powder.

I'll take winchester primers.

They suggested I start with 5 grs loads, the suggestion was general though and not specific to the 627 gun.

Please note: right now I'm only into paper punching, at 15 yards distance, later on I'll try 25 yards out.

My questions:

what would be your suggested loads with the specified SWC 158 gs hard-cast bullets, in 38 special?

I may change the VV 340 powder to another more suited, better if VV because other brands may not be available here. I'll check for availability anyway.

Any other successful combination you experimented with the 627 in .38 sp would be great. I can order any other type of bullets, subject to avalaibility.

Looking forward to your insight!!

[Waltermitty]

Benvenuto!

I am no help with reloading 38 Special because I only empty the cases and then give them to Bubber.

But I do want to greet you and tell you to make yourself at home.

[Bubber]

Welcome to the Revo side. I checked the VV loading data and they have nothiing for the 158 SWC but they start at 5.1 for a lead 160 grain bullet.

Bullet Powder Starting load Maximum load

Weight Type Mfg. C.O.L. Type Weight Velocity Weight Velocity

[g] [grs] [mm] [in.] [g] [grs] [m/s] [fps] grs] [m/s] [fps]

10,4 160 LFN Intercast 37 N340 0,33 5,1 297 974 5,8 338 1107

I find that I like a 160 grain bullet traveling about 820 fps. for me. I use Solo 1000 (by Accurate Powder) I would also use a faster burning powder VV 310 or VV320 is closer to Solo 1000 in Burn rates. Good Luck and as Cuzzin Watermitty sez

Benvenuto!

[mccoy]

Molte grazie per il caloroso benvenuto!

(Thanks very much for the very nice welcome)

I downloaded the VV datasheets.

And thanks for the tips, I'm going to work on'em

Edited March 5, 2008 by mccoy

[Daniele]

Un altro italiano! Troverai altri mangiaspaghetti in questo forum: io abito a Ravenna, ma ci sono anche Luca (marchigiano) e Igor ( piemontese e campione europeo ).

Buon divertimento con il tuo 8 times!

Daniele

[mccoy]

Grazie Daniele,

io sono Luca dall'abruzzo.

Piacerissimo incontrarti e sapere che ci sono altri italiani nel forum, Non me l'aspettavo!

Translation: just saying hello to the Italian gunslingers whose presence I did not expect round here.

[Carmoney]

I only know how to say one phrase in Italian: "Get in the trunk."

[Waltermitty]

I only know how to say one phrase in Italian: "Get in the trunk."

No, that is Sicilian. Big difference.

[mccoy]

I only know how to say one phrase in Italian: "Get in the trunk."

Well Carmoney, that's a start, isn't it?

No, that is Sicilian. Big difference.

True, that Sicilian lingo though may come in handy in other parts of Italy as well

[Bones]

Ciao McCoy!

Welcome.

I had the pleasure of seeing and shooting with Giorgio - IDPA Italia AC last week at S&W. I am going to try and make it back to Bergamo for the 08 Italian Nationals. Italy is truly beautiful and I've become addicted to Proseco.

I have been experimenting a VV320/158 gr Berry's CPRN load that runs cool and produces very little flash. I am currently using a 4.4 gr Titegroup/158 gr Berry's CPRN load that has been very good to me for many thousands of rounds, but tends to run hotter and produces more flash. The VV manual is an excellent resource and the place I started for my load.

Craig

[mccoy]

Ciao Bones,

interesting to know Italy is pretty active in IDPA revolver contests, as soon as I'll refine my shooting I'll sure start to ask around and probably partecipate to competions.

May be we'll have an opportunity to meet up. And drink Prosecco together (not too much of it though, I'm the man who drives the car)

Now the dumb question:

I've noticed you guys all agree on fast or very fast burning powders, with the specified caliber (38 sp)and bullet weight (158 grs). Why exactly so ? What would be the difference in using a slower powder such as N340 (located in between Accurate No. 5 and No. 7, or equal to hodgdon's longshot, or Ramshot's silhouette) ? I might start out with VV N340 for safety reasons (harder to double-charge during first reloads) and then, when I'll be familiar with the technique, sure switch to the N310 or N320 powders.

Also: what about use of lighter bullets?

Alla salute

Edited March 7, 2008 by mccoy

[Bubber]

The reason I like the faster powder is that it burns more complete under the lessor pressures of light loads. When all you need is 775 to 815 fps the light load of the faster powder's recoil "feels" softer. When going to a higher PF I would use the slower powders in 38 spl. Just my opinion... rdd

[Bones]

What Bubber said.

If the Power Factor equation is PF = weight X velocity most of us find a slower, heavier bullet produces less felt recoil than a faster, lighter bullet. Also, since you're burning less powder there is less muzzle flash. Important in IDPA lowlight and flashlight stages.

It's also cheaper. In general, per reloading unit, powder is less expensive than lead. Although if commodity prices contiunue on thier current trend, that may change soon.

I use 158 gr bullets because they are the heaviest round nose plated bullets I can find in bulk at reasonable proces (~$70/1000). If I could find 180 gr plated round nose bullets at the same price point, I would try them.

Craig

[cuzinvinny]

I just had my 627 at the range yesterday. I was checking a few loads over the chronograph. I am using a 158 grain truncated cone bullet, as I think it makes for quicker reloads than even the round nose, but that is just my opinion. I prefer 3.7 grains of Bullseye for a light static steel plate load, at about 700 fps. However, since my "If I could only have one powder" favorite is AA#5, I tried a couple of light loads using that powder. 5.5 grains of AA#5 ran about 750 fps, and 6.0 grains ran about 800.

[mccoy]

Cuzinvinny,

let's suppose you were exclusively interested in high accuracy with the 627, those killer groupings resembling a single irregular hole, regardless of power factor.

Which combination would you use then?

[TonyT]

mccoy,

You may want to give Trail Boss a try. I have found it to be an excellent powder for use with lead bullets. It's so bulky that it's virtually impossible to produce a double charged cartridge. It also provides a very soft perceived recoil.

The SWC's have a tendency to hang up on the chambemouth during reloads. A rouind nose bullet would be best for fast trouble free reloads with moonclips.

Edited March 23, 2008 by TonyT

[R112mercer]

158 gr. SWC are capable of great accuracy, some of my guns even shoot them better than the 148 gr. HBWC. I would recommend these three powders with these approx. powder charges:

Bullseye: 3.0-3.3 gr.

W231: 3.3-3.6 gr.

Clays: 2.7-3.0 gr.

I seat my bullets (Zero 158 gr. SWC) to 1.470". Try all three powders with different charges going up in 0.1 gr. increments. Guns are like children, each one is different and has different tastes. My M19 likes W231 and won't shoot well with Clays, but my M64 loves Clays and won't shoot W231 well at all (2-3" groups at 25 yards)!

None of these loads are designed to make power factor (not even minor), they are designed for accuracy only (PPC-type accuracy). That's not to say they won't make minor in your gun, or that they can't, just that that's not why I use these loads. Good Luck and Welcome Aboard!

[cuzinvinny]

McCoy,

When I'm after the most accurate load in a specific gun, I always let the gun dictate which load it prefers. In this case my 627 likes a 158 grain lead SWC (wasn't using the truncated cone bullet when I developed this load) with AA#5 at about 900 fps. I don't have my chrono results with me at this moment, so I don't know the exact powder charge. I will try to remember to check later this evening.

Edited March 25, 2008 by cuzinvinny

[mccoy]

McCoy,

When I'm after the most accurate load in a specific gun, I always let the gun dictate which load it prefers. In this case my 627 likes a 158 grain lead SWC (wasn't using the truncated cone bullet when I developed this load) with AA#5 at about 900 fps. I don't have my chrono results with me at this moment, so I don't know the exact powder charge. I will try to remember to check later this evening.

Cuzinvinny,

after a brief examination of handload data available, it would seem that AA#5 is not that far from the VVN340 I'm using with 158 gr SWCs.

AA#5 requires more powder mass, and your data suggest something close to the upper bound at 900 fps, if I'm not totally wrong here.

So, I think I'm going to behave likewise, start from something like medium range the way up (at the VVN340, from 5.3 grs up).

I also ordered the VVN320 which is a littel faster burning. I still do not know wether accurate is available here.

Also, thanks to the other friends and their tips. I'll try and find some of the suggested brand powders, now I'm using Vihtavuori because it's the hi-quality powder most readily available here in my place.

My 8-shooter has at last arrived (a beauty indeed!!) and I'm going to experiment the handloads next weekend (today I also fired some, mildly loaded, they were good).