BPiatt Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm not gettting this debate..... maybe I'm just "old school". I've been shooting 3-gun before it was called 3-gun... and I've been doing it with the same equipment. A standard 20" rifle, A 8+1 limited shotgun, A 5" .38 super The same gear I won the Soldier of Fortune match 5 times with. So I'm here to tell you it's not the gear that wins matches. I shoot all the so called "outlaw" matches and have a great time. What seems to be the problem here. See the match application, read the rules, and sign up if you want. If you don't like it, stay home or find a match you like. I'll throw a monkey wrench in some of your arguements, when I shoot the USPSA MultiGun Nationals, the unified rule match, I have to change my gear for that. I have to shoot a .40 for the pistol to be competitive. Some people want uniform rules.... Who's to say that ANY match has to follow those rules? Seems like to "outlaws" aren't having problems filling up the matches and no matter what rules you'll pass, it will remain this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 OPEN: Semi-auto rifle as many optics as you wish. Speed loading or Box Magazine fed semi-auto shotgun with or without optics. Pretty much whatever equipment you have or want to try. CLASS 1: Semi-automatic Rifle with optical sight, Semi-automatic Shotgun CLASS 2: Semi-automatic Rifle with iron sights, Semi-automatic Shotgun CLASS 3: Semi-automatic Rifle with optical sight, Pump Shotgun CLASS 4: Semi-automatic Rifle with iron sights, Pump Shotgun CLASS 5: All others (e.g. manually operated rifle, double gun, Cowboy 3-Gun) 6 classes. Everyone get s to play. This is what we run,, with IDPA scoring. All the engagement rules are in the stage description. This allows the most freedom. For equipment, the freestyle stage engagement. We don't address Power factor. Maybe someday we will. This does allow the Open. shooter to do his thing. and the guy with any other combination of equipment to play. then they can spend the money to go in any direction they wish. If they wish. And allows people to play with all of the toys in the gun cabinet. They can change it up now and again. It works for us. Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 OPEN: Semi-auto rifle as many optics as you wish. Speed loading or Box Magazine fed semi-auto shotgun with or without optics. Pretty much whatever equipment you have or want to try. CLASS 1: Semi-automatic Rifle with optical sight, Semi-automatic Shotgun CLASS 2: Semi-automatic Rifle with iron sights, Semi-automatic Shotgun CLASS 3: Semi-automatic Rifle with optical sight, Pump Shotgun CLASS 4: Semi-automatic Rifle with iron sights, Pump Shotgun CLASS 5: All others (e.g. manually operated rifle, double gun, Cowboy 3-Gun) 6 classes. Everyone get s to play. This is what we run,, with IDPA scoring. All the engagement rules are in the stage description. This allows the most freedom. For equipment, the freestyle stage engagement. We don't address Power factor. Maybe someday we will. This does allow the Open. shooter to do his thing. and the guy with any other combination of equipment to play. then they can spend the money to go in any direction they wish. If they wish. And allows people to play with all of the toys in the gun cabinet. They can change it up now and again. It works for us. Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Sorry got the double tap.. I too will be shooting a .40 this year at the USPSA NAt's. I think I was the only guy shooting 9mm. last year. and if you don't get an A.. Ouch! Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Here are the uniform rules:1. Bring at least 3 guns. At least 1 shotgun, rifle, and pistol. 2. Don't shoot anyone at the match 3. Read the rules before you go. If you bitch about the rules at the match, be prepared to get kicked in the balls. 4. Quit trying to run my matches for me. Ditto to the nth power! I like the differences. Sometimes I feel like USPSA, most times I don't! But that's me and my choice! I vote with my money! As far as scoring...I personally like to see each stage as the challenge, not each target, that's why I like time plus- equal weight per stage. San Angelo - It's the best to make USPSA work for multi-gun, but I have scored with EZ Win, and my shooter's can't even do the score sheets right for steel vs. clays, let alone pistol vs rifle targets! NRA being ruling organization - if That's what you want, swell, but remember, there will be dues and sanctioning (as well as fees per match for shooter's and organizers, which means match fees will go up), and it will take away my opportunity to design a strange new stage that's fun and interesting if it doesn't exactly meet the rules! Just our two cents! Benelli Chick and Rigger JJ too! P.S. As far as standardizing equipment - if you are concerned about the variety, you can get equipment that will work for all matches. e.g. HM .45 single stack, pump, .308. Besides, different rules means you have an excuse for a new gun, or maybe a whole new set! Edited February 17, 2008 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) It seems the PRIMARY complaint for UNIFYING rules is that people have to READ the rules before shooting a match to see if they are in compliance. I have friends that don't read, and then complain when they get to the match and get bumped to another class because of equipment. Even after they were told by their squad mates, about the equipment in question. Guess how much sympathy they got!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you sign up for a match, and pay your money, who's fault is it that you don't know the rules?????????? YOURS!! READ the fricken Rules, and quit trying to blame others for your mistakes. I have only had one instance where a rule was not available for me to find prior to signing up and paying for the match. However I was made aware of it prior to shooting the match. Unifying doesn't automatically make things better, just look at the U.N.!!!!!!! Trapr Edited February 17, 2008 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The Free Market will sort all this stuff out. Matches are a product. If you don't like what a particular club/organization/MD is selling spend your money elsewhere. Or take the initiative and get something started that is to your liking. If there is a match that you've been attending and decide to stop because the rules aren't to your liking make sure they know why.Funny, the parallels I see in this debate and various political issues I actively work on. An organization can't solve your problems, it's up to individuals to take action and effect change themselves. I wanted a new division created at some of the matches I go to...so I made it happen There wasn't a rifle only competition locally...so I made it happen (only once a year, but still) anyone with the time/motivation can do the same kind of things... Cheers to getting off your ass and doing something, not just complaining about it. even if a lot of us think you trooper guys are all crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 All in all I just want the Sport of 3 Gun to grow. It is good for the industry. Does any other shooting sport buy a larger variety of gun stuff than a 3 Gunner? Maybe there is but I don’t know what shooting sport it might be. Cowboy action maybe. For anyone who sells anything to a shooter. Anyone who teaches shooting, has a TV show about shooting, USPSA, IDPA, the more people in the pool the better for all. That is just good business. That is why Burger King and McDonalds are right next to each other in many places. It is good for the country. We need to get more people that own guns out shooting them. These same people will be more proactive in many ways. All good in a bunch of subjects from gun rights to home land security. And it is just plan old FUN! You need to get out and play with your friends, and have a good time. IMHO Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm not gettting this debate..... maybe I'm just "old school".I've been shooting 3-gun before it was called 3-gun... and I've been doing it with the same equipment. A standard 20" rifle, A 8+1 limited shotgun, A 5" .38 super The same gear I won the Soldier of Fortune match 5 times with. So I'm here to tell you it's not the gear that wins matches. I shoot all the so called "outlaw" matches and have a great time. What seems to be the problem here. See the match application, read the rules, and sign up if you want. If you don't like it, stay home or find a match you like. I'll throw a monkey wrench in some of your arguements, when I shoot the USPSA MultiGun Nationals, the unified rule match, I have to change my gear for that. I have to shoot a .40 for the pistol to be competitive. Some people want uniform rules.... Who's to say that ANY match has to follow those rules? Seems like to "outlaws" aren't having problems filling up the matches and no matter what rules you'll pass, it will remain this way. I'm not sure it's a debate. It's more like trying to fend off a hostile takeover. Even if whatever rules the "unifiers" come up with don't affect my gear, I still don't want them telling me one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 All in all I just want the Sport of 3 Gun to grow.It is good for the industry. Does any other shooting sport buy a larger variety of gun stuff than a 3 Gunner? Maybe there is but I don’t know what shooting sport it might be. Cowboy action maybe. For anyone who sells anything to a shooter. Anyone who teaches shooting, has a TV show about shooting, USPSA, IDPA, the more people in the pool the better for all. That is just good business. That is why Burger King and McDonalds are right next to each other in many places. It is good for the country. We need to get more people that own guns out shooting them. These same people will be more proactive in many ways. All good in a bunch of subjects from gun rights to home land security. And it is just plan old FUN! You need to get out and play with your friends, and have a good time. IMHO Jim M ammo The Burger King/McDonald's thing is right on. Two organization, two similar but distinctly different products. They each compete to bring in more customers. Quality goes up, prices go down. Consumers win. Competition within an industry is not just a good thing but will help the sport, as a whole, grow. Cowboy action shooters are 3 gunners. They just dress funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now