mmm3 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 What I find when I have a student that shoots low and left is that they do not put their finger deep enough into the trigger. The moment the trigger breaks the pistol then goes low and left. Try putting your finger deeper into the trigger- but not so deep that you "hook" the trigger to the right again. This normally works for guys just starting out but to my embarrassment I have found that every time I have a shooting problem it was a fundemental problem in the end. It all boils down to fundamentals, every time That's funny. I corrected my left shooting by placing less finger on the trigger. I wasn't low, just left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 I know this may sound obvious, but have you tried adjusting the rear sight? most everyone says to not adjust the sight as others who can shoot great have tried my pistol and are dead on accurate with it at greater distances than what I am seeing. It is me that needs adjusting not the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 My eyes and your eyes are not the same. Everyone looks at the same sights differently. Not to mention a host of other factors. Change your sigthts- what could it hurt? If that doesn't help work on it in dryfire relentlessly. We should get together at Lomira and practice anyway- then I can watch and see if I can see something that you may have missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 My eyes and your eyes are not the same. I have always thought that was bunk. I think trainers say it when they can't think of anything else and it gets repeated. Cooter...you are shooting multiple guns? ...that center up for others? ...and they are impacting in the same direction for you? You are mis-aligning the gun as you fire. Simple as that. If you open your eyes and watch the front sight as the bullet leaves the barrel...you will see it happen. You have a flinch. (probably blinking as the gun goes off) You are milking the grip less (since you tightened up with your weak hand). But, make sure you aren't still gripping tighter with the strong hand too...as you fire. And, here is where it probably is too...your grip (strong hand) on the gun isn't in a proper "yaw axis" to allow you to press the trigger straight back. When I shoot a G20 (larger frame), I will get your same groups, but they are off to the right. That comes from how my strong hand sits on the gun (since I am so used to the standard sized frame). - Tape your shooting glasses so that your weak eye can't see the front sight. - Shoot a group weak-handed and note where the group hits. - Wear plugs and muffs - Think if your strong hand as a wimp that is only there to press the trigger straight back into the frame. Know that I have seen this a zillion times. I had the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) I would just crank the sight until the groups are centered and be done with it. That is why we have "adjustable sights". I'm lazy. I know what you're saying, Flex. You are trying to help correct the problem, while my suggestion would just mask the symptom. Edited February 17, 2008 by baerburtchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 My eyes and your eyes are not the same. I have always thought that was bunk. I think trainers say it when they can't think of anything else and it gets repeated. Wait a minute Flex, are you implying that everyone has the same eyesight and "sees" things the same way?! I am not a "trainer" nor am I implying that there are other things to work on. I have actually talked with Chris about some of the same issues. But I see him getting overwhelmed with the target result to the point of it magnifying the problems. Once he is back to hitting the A zone I think he can start to focus on improving his techniques. I don't mean to poke the "bear", but I would have to disagree with the eyesight issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallow Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 How excellent are these groups? ... but if your groups really are excellent ( 1-2" at 25 yards), or even very good (2-1/2 to 3" at 25 yards) just adjust your sights. Your groups at 8 yards are pretty large; you are clearly making one or more of the mistakes that many here have mentioned. To see if you're flinching, shoot in fairly low light and watch for your muzzle flash. If you can see that, you're not flinching. I still don't see any reason not to adjust your sights so those groups are centered on the target. Then as you tighten your groups, you can adjust your sights as necessary. The key is to shrink your groups--you can't shoot consistantly small groups while milking the grip or yanking the trigger or flinching or otherwise failing to control the trigger. Just because somebody else can shoot your gun to point of sight alignment doesn't necessarily mean that's the first thing you should work on, IMHO. However, you are apparently making correctable mistakes, and if you prefer to leave the sights where they are as you correct the mistakes, that'll work too. At my CPL class last week, there was a young woman who was given a rented Glock to shoot. She had never fired a gun, didn't know how to put the cartridges in the magazine, didn't know which way to put the mag in the gun, didn't know to rack the slide. The targets were 8" x 8" pieces of paper at 7 yards. I didn't expect her to hit the paper. Her first shot hit dead center, and she shot fourteen more into a group of about 1-1/2". She just didn't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanexp Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 It looks to me like you are shooting at a spot on the target instead of shooting your hold and letting the gun surprise you. Maybe I figured out what this means on the range today...it's kinda of a big deal for me actually. Another poster was contrasting "wobble" with hold. Watching the sights, managing the wobble with a smooth press, trusting the hold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 It looks to me like you are shooting at a spot on the target instead of shooting your hold and letting the gun surprise you. Maybe I figured out what this means on the range today...it's kinda of a big deal for me actually. Another poster was contrasting "wobble" with hold. Watching the sights, managing the wobble with a smooth press, trusting the hold... It was a a big deal for me too. Brian said something similar to my comment years ago and I had to think about it for a while so I was making an effort to pass it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 It looks to me like you are shooting at a spot on the target instead of shooting your hold and letting the gun surprise you. I guess I am misunderstanding this comment. I thought you wanted to shoot for a spot on a target as in using the sights to hit what you are aiming at or am I missing something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 It looks to me like you are shooting at a spot on the target instead of shooting your hold and letting the gun surprise you. I guess I am misunderstanding this comment. I thought you wanted to shoot for a spot on a target as in using the sights to hit what you are aiming at or am I missing something here. You might not be missing anything. What I ment was this, you can only hold a gun so still. When you are holding it as still as you can (covering the place you want to hit) start pressing the trigger slowly until the gun goes off supprising you. If you try to hit a spot on the target when your sights cross it you will wank every time. Don't make the gun fire, let it. Don't shoot at a spot, shoot your hold. This was huge for me in learning how to shoot good groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Well after some clips of me dry firing were sent off to another forum member I think we have pin pointed several bad habits I need to ficus on. I seem to drop my head to the right to see behind the sights not bringing the gun up to my eyes. I am also letting my week hand flop around when drawing the gun. I have most definetly seen the jedi art of the dry fire and understand its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Here's the quickest way I recommend: Shoot the gun slowly and carefully while using your left hand as the primary and your right hand as the support hand. If the gun still groups low and left , it's the sights. If the group shifts low right or stays centered, it's you, amigo. Very common. Good Luck -MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuh pahl Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Cooter, try holding the gun firmer with your weak hand (70%) and lighter with your strong hand. (30%). Then pull the trigger steadily until it breaks. See if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Try aiming the gun and have someone else pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Cooter has been working on the weakhand's relationship concerning the grip for sometime. But until I got him to start dryfiring it was tough for him to get that nailed down. So I think improvement have been made since his last post. He is in an RO class this weekend- and is getting overwhelmed with "knowledge"! But he has come a long way in a short time, just not realizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Well I was at the range on Thursday night but have still not improved shooting my SS or the dot 22. I did get to shoot a open 9 gun today and shot all A's at 24ft. It was on a RO Prez stage for our RO class. I will say that it shot like the 22 but it was on target once I turned on the dot. I shot the first run with the dot off and thought I just couldn't see it. O well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Well there ya go bud, you just gotta get an Open gun to improve your shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Well there ya go bud, you just gotta get an Open gun to improve your shooting! Yeah that thought had popped in my head but I don't really have the 3-3500 to plunk down on all the gear needed at this time. JT called and asked if I had found one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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