phara Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 It's almost time again for the International Revolver Championships. And of course they will probably have the infamous Near Far Standards stage where we will shoot various par time strings out to 50 yards. Somebody once told me that I should sight my gun at 50 yards because anything closer would still be point of aim. Does this make sense or should I sight the gun in at 25 yards and compensate for the 50 yard targets? Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Excuse my ignorance, but why is it you would have to compensate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Jake, I'm shooting 230 grain bullets and when the gun is sighted in to point of aim at 25 yards (NRA D-1 targets) I have to aim high at the targets at 50 yards to hit the Alpha zone. Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 TIS, I have to agree. We shoot 9mm's out to 130 yards, point-of-aim! Glockn... OOOOoooooppppssss, Phara, we must have posted at the same time. If I see this correctly, you can shoot the majority of the match with a 25 yard sight-in with only one stage at 50. Why shoot an entire match, sighted at 50, when you don't have to? Just practice the 50 yard hold and sight in for 25. Glockn... again,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Gentlemen, there are two effects in play here: 1) Gravity. A slug traveling 1000f/s takes 150 ms to go 50 yards. In that time, it will move downward 1.1" from the initial POA. Twice as far for 100 yards. The weight of the slug does not affect how far it will drop from horizontal (just the velocity and distance travel). 2) Sighter line compared to bore. If you have a Scope whose center axis is above the bore line, that means the sight line and bore line can converge at only one point. If you "zero" at 50 yards, the POI will be a shade below POA at 25 yards, and itt will be above POA beyond 50 yards. Example: if the scope line is 2" above the bore axis and zeroed to 50 yards, at 25 yards the impact point will be one inch below the point of aim. At 75 yards, it will be 1" above the POA. The flight of the bullet is moving upward with respect to the line of sight of the scope, and crosses at only one distance (that's where it is zeroed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Another option is to bottom out your rear sight and figure out how many "clicks" you need to go to sight in for 25, and 50 yds. That way you have a simple way to dial in the sight adjustment you need and can do it cold when you need to. It will take some time and ammo, but it might give you the warm fuzzy feeling you are looking for,and you will be able to use the same sight picture. Good luck at the IRC, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Phara, I would agree with GlocknSchpiel, zero where you are comfortable and use Kentucky Windage. Also how married are you to the 230 grain bullets. A 200 round nose could be pushed a little faster and thus maybe a closer point of impact to point of aim. You might even find that you may not need a lot of elevation for the 50 yard shot. I can remember one IRC where there were targets out close to 70 yards and one was a stop target. But they have since then cut the ranges down considerable. Hope to see you at the IRC. I will be the slightly built person. (Slighty shorter than 5' 6" and slightly heavier than 250 lbs) Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 phara, How fast are your bullets traveling? According to the charts in my SIERRA manual (buy one)... A 230g FMJ, traveling at 950fps...if zeroed at 40 yards... (iron sights) will hit... Muzzle ... -.80 10 yards ... -.01 20 yards ... +.40 30 yards ... +.40 40 yards ... dead on 50 yards ... -.81 All this great info can be found in the exterior ballistic portion of the Sierra manual. (various bullet weight/profiles and speeds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Within reason, I've always found it better to shoot high at 25 yds. I'd rather aim low and "see" the target than high and guess. Besides when smokin' the tendency is to muscle the gun down. With a .44 cal. 240 at 720 f/s and zero'd at 50, it shoots under 2" high at 25. Still good for head "Sorry, upper A/B Zone" shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Thanks for all the advice and info. Sorting it all out, It seems that trying to make minor with my 230 grain bullets is a bad idea!!!. My velocity is only about 575. It sounds like this could really be the source of my point of aim being so far off at 50 yards. I was trying to make do with what I have. I'll try some 200 grain bullets. I am also going to try some 165 grain roundnose flat point that Bear Creek makes. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks to everyone for their help! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Bubber....You lose some weight? And how did you get taller? To be on point, lay off the flat points. They will kill your reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Underlug, Regarding the flat points- are you speaking from experience or common sense? Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Paul, I cannot answer for Underlug, but we had spoken before, He was going to try a truncated bullet and mentioned that the flat points on the bullet itself might cause some promblems on speedloads. Underlug never metioned it again and I assumed it went well. I guess maybe not. I was able to speedload some semiwad cutters in a 45 (25-2) using the speedstick by Phil R. It was ok but round noses are better. And without the speedsticks it was not smooth at all. The edges and flat points catch on the cylinders. You have alittle time left to work the bugs out good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Thanks Bubber, I shot about 500 of the moly round nose flat points so far. and so far they have worked fine. since they are round they don't stick and I have yet to hit the flat point exactly in the wrong place. The 45 chamber holes are so big it helps with the reloads. However, I have 500 West Coast plated 200 grain round nose to try out and am looking forward to shooting them this week. I also have some truncated 185's to try, but they do look like their going to stick. The have a lot of sharp angles. Based on yours and Underlugs experience I think I'll by pass the test on these. Thanks much, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Sorry not to have responded. The round nose flat points did not work for me because if you really miss the hole they do not shake down into the cylinder for me like a true round nose. They hang up more. If you hit the hole approximately right, they are ok. They make a prettier hole. YRMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 Thanks Underlug, I did get a chance to shoot both the 165 grain round nose flat points and the 200 grn round nose this weekend. You're right, on average the round nose did have fewer hiccups during fast reloads. Also, at 50 yards the 200 grainers had much tighter groups. Someone at the range said the 165's (which are made for cowboy action) may be too short to be stable. At any rate, I can shoot closer to point of aim with the 200's than with the super slow moving 230's (although in either case I have to aim much higher than the inch drop I should expect at the 50 yard distance.) Oh well, what ever works! Thanks all, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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