Tite Group temp. sensitive?

[Flexmoney]

fwiw...I keep thinking I'll call Hodgdon and ask them...but it hasn't really been a priority for me.

[bkeeler]

I did a little experiment outside today with titegroup. Understand, that dont have anything against titegroup. I have experienced temp swings before with titegroup (as I had previously mentioned).

This was my experiment:

The outside temperature was 29 degrees:

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it outside.

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it in my car with the engine running.

I would shoot the cold rounds with a cold pistol and record the results.

I did the same after the pistol itself was as warm as rounds and the magazine that were on the dash of the car.

I did this with the following loads, the results are listed with the rounds tested.

180gr bullet, Clays powder 1.235" OAL.

When cold: average: 946fps, SD:10 PF:170.2

When warm: average: 951, SD:9 PF:171.1

200gr bullet, Clays powder 1.230" OAL.

When cold: average:841fps, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:168.2

When warm: average:847, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.4

180gr bullet, Titegroup powder 1.185" OAL.

When cold: average:943, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.7

When warm: average:969, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:174.4

I had no 200gr bullets to try in the titegroup.

So there you go. Take it for what it's worth. It seemed to me the Clays was more consistent than the titegroup was.

Your results may vary from mine, and I'm sure they will. This was just my little experiment on the subject. I was curious, and now I know.

The 180gr bullet w/Clays was loaded to 1.235 and 180gr w/TG loaded to 1.185. Shouldnt you test at the same length?

BK

[jostein jensen]

this has lead to some people keeping their ammo in coolers at matches.

EHC to name on match it happened at. It doesn't say anywhere you can't do it, but I still think its borderline...

[Zerwas]

I did a little experiment outside today with titegroup. Understand, that dont have anything against titegroup. I have experienced temp swings before with titegroup (as I had previously mentioned).

This was my experiment:

The outside temperature was 29 degrees:

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it outside.

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it in my car with the engine running.

I would shoot the cold rounds with a cold pistol and record the results.

I did the same after the pistol itself was as warm as rounds and the magazine that were on the dash of the car.

I did this with the following loads, the results are listed with the rounds tested.

180gr bullet, Clays powder 1.235" OAL.

When cold: average: 946fps, SD:10 PF:170.2

When warm: average: 951, SD:9 PF:171.1

200gr bullet, Clays powder 1.230" OAL.

When cold: average:841fps, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:168.2

When warm: average:847, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.4

180gr bullet, Titegroup powder 1.185" OAL.

When cold: average:943, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.7

When warm: average:969, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:174.4

I had no 200gr bullets to try in the titegroup.

So there you go. Take it for what it's worth. It seemed to me the Clays was more consistent than the titegroup was.

Your results may vary from mine, and I'm sure they will. This was just my little experiment on the subject. I was curious, and now I know.

The 180gr bullet w/Clays was loaded to 1.235 and 180gr w/TG loaded to 1.185. Shouldnt you test at the same length?

BK

If I did, I'd blow up my pistol. Clays it too high of a pressure at that OAL...

[bkeeler]

I did a little experiment outside today with titegroup. Understand, that dont have anything against titegroup. I have experienced temp swings before with titegroup (as I had previously mentioned).

This was my experiment:

The outside temperature was 29 degrees:

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it outside.

I put 10 rounds in a magazine and left it in my car with the engine running.

I would shoot the cold rounds with a cold pistol and record the results.

I did the same after the pistol itself was as warm as rounds and the magazine that were on the dash of the car.

I did this with the following loads, the results are listed with the rounds tested.

180gr bullet, Clays powder 1.235" OAL.

When cold: average: 946fps, SD:10 PF:170.2

When warm: average: 951, SD:9 PF:171.1

200gr bullet, Clays powder 1.230" OAL.

When cold: average:841fps, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:168.2

When warm: average:847, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.4

180gr bullet, Titegroup powder 1.185" OAL.

When cold: average:943, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:169.7

When warm: average:969, SD: unknown wasn't written down, PF:174.4

I had no 200gr bullets to try in the titegroup.

So there you go. Take it for what it's worth. It seemed to me the Clays was more consistent than the titegroup was.

Your results may vary from mine, and I'm sure they will. This was just my little experiment on the subject. I was curious, and now I know.

The 180gr bullet w/Clays was loaded to 1.235 and 180gr w/TG loaded to 1.185. Shouldnt you test at the same length?

BK

If I did, I'd blow up my pistol. Clays it too high of a pressure at that OAL...

So load the TG to 1.235.

BK

[SA Friday]

There is the possibility that a factor is being missed and such causing the confusing results. For example, the humidity of the air at the time the cartridge was loaded. A higher humidity at the time of reloading could result in a higher content of water vapor in the air in the case. The colder temp could affect a cartridge differently loaded in a humid house vs a very dry house. This is hypothetical, of course, but I thought I would throw the fact out there that there are a lot of variables that could play into this.

[coldchar]

Could there be variation problems from two different causes interacting with each other? I definitely have found lots of variation due to temperature, however, I also have a lot more trouble with Titegroup variation as I move toward the major end of the spectrum.

I thought (knowing absolutely nothing about what I am talking about) possibly it had to do with it being a double base powder and that the nitro consumes available oxygen in the case and the powder burn goes to heck in a hand basket.

[Zerwas]

There is the possibility that a factor is being missed and such causing the confusing results. For example, the humidity of the air at the time the cartridge was loaded. A higher humidity at the time of reloading could result in a higher content of water vapor in the air in the case. The colder temp could affect a cartridge differently loaded in a humid house vs a very dry house. This is hypothetical, of course, but I thought I would throw the fact out there that there are a lot of variables that could play into this.

I actually loaded the rounds the very same night. Both powders etc, when I was trying to find a load for my new 6" pistol. It is actually kind of ironic that I don't use Clays or Titegroup powder for my 6", but rather VN320.

I was getting pressure signs with the Clays and the Titegroup was sharper in recoil.

Again, I want to stress the point, I have nothing against Titegroup powder. Heck, that was my powder of choice in my site tracker over the last 3 years (yes, even over the N320). I don't know what to say to account for the difference in the temp variance.

As far as loading the titegroup out to the 1.235 OAL, it won't make a difference. I have been told by some solid informants the titegroup is actually more consistent at shorter OAL's. So I'm afraid if that experiment was to be tried, it would not do titegroup any favors.

[steel1212]

My limited gun load is 4.4 ( I think been a while since I've shot limited) of TG and it has always been around 170ish, read 168-173ish. At area 3 I was a little worried that I wouldn't make PF cause of how cold it was sat morning but I just kept a few rounds in my pocket and gave him those, again 170.1.

Its not as consistent as say Varget or Benchmark or VV for pistols but all I've had has always stayed fairly close to 170. I buy the 8lb jugs when I settle on a powder and it has worked great.

Dirty? Na rocket Chicks dig guys with dirty guns....it shows they been used and know how to use them

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I have run the same major load for about a year now in my Brazos. The biggest swing I saw was from the Indiana Sectional to Area 8 from the same jug. Indiana was hot as hell and my load chronoed at 183. Same load at Area 8 cam in at 172.

The load is 4.6 grs with 185 Precision RN, 1.223 OAL, federal small pistol primers and winchester mixed brass.

[markwilliston]

I'm going to Florida next week for the Open and was a curious how much of a change I'd see over the chrono. Seeing as there is still 2 feet of snow at the range here I did a test today. I loaded my match load of titegroup and 180Fmj's with an OAL of 1.14, and went out to the range. When I got there I loaded 2 mags and put them in a plastic bag and stuck them in the snow. I loaded 2 more mags and stuck them in my pants pocket. I also took the gun out and put it on the table to cool off right away before setting up the chrono and stuff.

With everything cold and outside air temp of +5C the first string on 19 rounds gave:

AVG Vel 968.7

SD 11.13

AVG ME 375.18

AVG PF 174.37

HI Vel 987

LO Vel 951

Max Dev 36

Then I had some practice time to get everything (including myself) warmed up. The second string of 17 rounds with everything warm gave:

AVG Vel 957.0

SD 9.78

AVG ME 366.19

AVG PF 172.27

HI Vel 974

LO Vel 942

Max Dev 32

So I'm happy with that for the Florida match, but may just bump the load .1 for summertime matches up here where major is 170pf.