Help with recoil management

[ap3]

I am an A class shooter that is in need of completly evaluating my fundamentals if I am going to progress.

Please look over this clip and let me know what you think of my recoil control. I am shooting an El Prez set-up at 15 yards with 6 to 10 inch steel targets. I know I have misses but I was intentionaly pushing my speed beyond my ragged edge in order to create shooting stress for my recoil management skills. I have small hands so I have to get everything just right in order to shoot well.

Is this what you see for recoil as a shooter?

Does the recoil arc look normal?

Could I gain time here with smoother control?

Anything else you see in regards to my fundamentals would be appreciated.

recoil

Edited January 10, 2008 by ap3

[HoMiE]

Get rid of the misses and you will progress from A class. Your thumb looks like it is sticking up in the air, try to point it more in the direction of the target getting your support hand wrist canted more forward.

[boz1911]

As long as the sight drops back in the slot, I would think it's a moot point.

I will say with you left thumb pointed out like that I would have someone examine your grip and verify that your left hand is doing it's job of gripping the gun, allowing the right hand to be free for trigger control.

[BSeevers]

I think a film of you shooting from the side(all of you) would be very helpful. Also a breakdown of splits and transistions. Oh and yea you are missing way too much for an effective practice. I usually look for no D's in practice much less a miss.

If you are missing in practice how could you every expect to shoot a A in a match?

Now practicing some kind of speed timing drill would be ok to miss if you were

experimenting. I think a better way is to shoot in practice normal. Getting a similar or better practice partner might be a good thing

Edited January 11, 2008 by BSeevers

[ap3]

Now practicing some kind of speed timing drill would be ok to miss if you were

experimenting.

That is what I was doing, I could have slowed down by a second and not had a single miss, but I was trying to create a stressfull situation to magnify any errors I was doing.

I have been wondering if I am applying enough grip with my weak hand, causing the recoil arc to be inconsistent. The pointing thumb into space may be a good indicator.

Is this what you see when you shoot?

[Catfish]

OK, like Seevers has said, a view from the side would be helpful.

Ala Max and Travis, I also have applied a small piece of skateboard tape just forward of the slide release as an index point of where my left thumb goes.

To find out if your grip is where it needs to be, try a Burkett drill like this:

Shoot for group at 10 yards

Both hands 50-50

Strong hand tighter than left

Weak hand tighter than right

Look at the target - which group is better? Most folks do well gripping the gun tighter with their off hand. However, not everyone does; for example, I'm a lot closer to 50/50 than 60/40....

edited for crappy spelling...

Edited January 11, 2008 by Catfish

[Flexmoney]

Like Bill, I'd like to see a side view as you shoot.

[carinab]

Your thumb looks like it is sticking up in the air, try to point it more in the direction of the target getting your support hand wrist canted more forward.

It's hard to tell from the hat cam exactly what your grip is, so you're going to get the full enchilada!

As a female, I have to use body ergonomics to compensate for upper body strength. You said fundamentals and here's is what I have found:

Strong hand should wrap around the gun to where the barrel is in line with your wrist bone/arm. For me that is the center of the web between my thumb and index finger. Also ensure you are as high on the back strap as you can be. Some people with small hands have trouble getting their index finger on the trigger in the right place with this grip. Contour the grip, get a shorter trigger, whatever, but try to keep the bone structure in line with the gun. The recoil impulse needs to impact structure to be dampened.

Weak hand should wrap the strong with much of the meat of your left hand on the gun and with a roll forward cant as Homie mentioned. The line from elbow to thumb should be straight, the thumb pointing at the target. If your left wrist is bent up, you're not getting bone structure behind the recoil and the gun will go the direction of least resistance (most likely an arc up and towards the left). I keep a slight bend in my elbows and they point out parallel to the ground, not down.

Grip tension can be experimented with as Catfish mentioned. But the goal is to have the front sight track up and down. Bill drills are a good way to see where grip tension pushes the gun. See where the gun arcs and where your hits are.

In addition to grip, be sure your stance helps in recoil management. Feet are at a minimum shoulder width apart, parallel or strong foot slightly back - whatever works best with your natural point of aim. Body weight should be in the balls of your feet, not in your heels. Your center should be lowered and active. In other words, your hips should roll forward slightly as if you're thinking to sit in a chair. Knees should be soft/slightly bent. You want an aggressive stance that supports the ergonomics of the upper body.

[ap3]

carinab,

Excellent, as I have small hands I have no room for grip error. I sounds like I have been doing the right thing for all these years. Although, I could stand to get my strong hand more behind the gun.

It is difficult to get you strong hand behind the gun and then get an excellent trigger finger placement with small hands. I worry that I am prone over grip with my right hand for trying to compensate causuing the recoil arc to not be smooth as well as sight bounce at the end of the recoil cycle.

Thanks to everyone for you feedback.

Edited January 11, 2008 by ap3