Service Desk Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I am thinking of rechambering a Barsto 6" Bull barrel from 9 x 19 to 9 x 23 - has anyone done one recently ?? I have ordered a Clymer reamer, but a gunsmith friend has suggested rather strongly that the Mason (nowlin) reamer is a better choice. He didn't elaborate - so I am none the wiser. Comments are welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwmiket Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) Any particular reason for wanting to make the change? Most people that aren't happy with 9x19 go to .38 super..... that being said, just had rebarreled an 9 x 23 Open gun, so I've got some experience working with the cartridge, but had a gunsmith do the change. -Mike Edited October 24, 2007 by cnemikeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 from what I could find on the reamers.. Clymer 9x23 Win base .3921 case mouth .382 free bore .358 pilot .3455 chamber length .9 free bore length .085 rim thickness .2 throat 2 degrees Clymer 9x23 Nolin base .3920 case mouth .382 free bore .358 pilot .3450 chamber length .9 free bore length .060 rim thickness .2 throat 2 degrees Manson 9x23WIN .3920 Base Dia. .3820 Case Mouth Dia. .3580 Freebore (Throat) Dia. .3445 Pilot Dia. . . . . . (.3450 Nowlin) .0600 Freebore Length .7000 Base to Case Mouth .9000 Max. Chamber Length 2° Throat Angle (Lead) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Any particular reason for wanting to make the change? Most people that aren't happy with 9x19 go to .38 super..... that being said, just had rebarreled an 9 x 23 Open gun, so I've got some experience working with the cartridge, but had a gunsmith do the change.-Mike I shoot lead bullets mainly - the accuracy in 9 X 19 is marginal for the 122 grainers, however in .38 Super the same bullet at the same velocity is good. So I figure that the issue is the pressure curve and the lead bullet strength - rechambering to 9 x 23 will get me closer to the 38 Super performance in those areas. With jacketed bullets the 9mm shoots acceptably - but still not as good as the Super across a broad range of loads. The 9 x 23 has all the good features of 9 x 19 - and from what I have read, is very accurate. I only want to make a Bianchi (120) powerfactor - accuracy is what I am really chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 you re barking up the wrong tree,, the lead acuracy isnt gonna change by cutting a different chamber, still the same bullet going down the same barrel the same velocity. I would look at the size of the bullets, Your 38 Super probably has a .356 barrel your 9mm a .355 or there abouts. My Nowlin 9mm barrel is probably closer to .3545 and wont shoot lead for squat. I could order custom sizing but I just shoot .355 jacketed ammo through it. You are comparing apples to oranges in your two guns, there are alot more differences in them than just the chamber, and I have never heard rechambering is a cure for accuracy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Sd...try this before you rechamber. Figure out how long you can load the bullets in your gun in 9x19... I have load data for 50 yd accuracy loads, with 115s at 1.120 OAL to 1.150 OAL...depending on the bullet. If you are shooting the 1911 design I would load the bullets out longer, and try Titegroup, W 231, and VV 320 and VV 330 to find a load that will shoot for you. You will also probably be in the 130PF range when your gun starts shooting well. Good luck, you just need to find the right load... DougC Edited October 25, 2007 by DougCarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The 9MM is tapered and the 9X23 is not. You can get away with reaming a 9mm to 9X23 but you have to stay on top of the brass if you are going to load it to major pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 9x23 is tapered...slightly but it is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I thought that 9x23 was designed to allow reaming it from 9x19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I agree with JOE4D, I think it (in-accuracy) is in your barrel or pistol. I have 3-9x23 pistols and they are all very accurate. I have a Kimber Target II in 9 mm, that shoot extremely well and if I use Wolf factory ammo...you wouldn't believe the groups. It just happens to like those bullets. I use lead 147 grain bullets in each one of the mentioned pistols (not loaded hot in 9x23) and have found them to be very accurate. I even shoot 9 mm through the 9x23's and you cannot see much difference, in accuracy, shooting off-hand. I use a Ransom Rest to check my pistols and find the loads they like best. Then when I shoot off-hand, I know what the pistol and ammo combination is capable of doing. You should have someone (Nowlin, Bar-Sto, or a gunsmith that you have confidence in their work) hard fit your pistol with a new premium 9mm barrel. The 9x23 brass is very expensive in comparison to 9 mm and the 9 mm is just as accurate in my experience. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hijack: I'm buying a 9x19 tanfoglio open gun with 12 popple holes. I'm worried about making major. If I can't, I might convert it to 9x23. That's a good reason, I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hijack:I'm buying a 9x19 tanfoglio open gun with 12 popple holes. I'm worried about making major. If I can't, I might convert it to 9x23. That's a good reason, I think... you'll need the large frame to fit the 9x23.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) I have converted a Tokarev and a Star super B from 9x19 Luger to 9x23mmWin. The Tokarev shoots 158 gr XTP 1.36" OAL, and the STar Shoots 158 gr XTP 1.29" OAL. I have the Manson 9x23mm reamer, but I prefer to use drills, straight fluted reamers, and boring bars to get the throat right for 158 gr bullets. Edited November 15, 2007 by Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hijack:I'm buying a 9x19 tanfoglio open gun with 12 popple holes. I'm worried about making major. If I can't, I might convert it to 9x23. That's a good reason, I think... you'll need the large frame to fit the 9x23.. Hi EERW. In the past, there were generally 2 frame sizes for the Tanfoglio/TZ/Springfield Armory guns: 1) Small for 9mm & 40 2) Large to accomodate the OAL of the .38 sup 45 ACP and 10mm. Fairly certain Henning stated ALL current tanfoglios are now based on the large frame - even the 9mm guns. Henning - is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hi Carlos.. yep..for some reason read right over that.. from what I understand..EAA is only importing the large framed guns..so yep..if he is buying a new 9mm..it will be the large frame..so the mags will accomodate the 9x23.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 OK, let's back up to the original problem. Alarm bells went off when I read "poor accuracy with lead in 9mm, but OK in super." Been there, done that. It is a powder issue. Let me guess, you're loading your Bianchi 120PF ammo with Bullseye, Titegroup, or some other fast powder, right? Some 9mms, with lead bullets, do not like fast powders. Use a slower powder (WW-231 seems to be the threshold) and your accuracy problems will go away. A lot cheaper than a reamer, the work, the brass and continued accuracy problems if you use those fast powders. Why the problem? No idea. I tested 40-50 barrels with the powders for 9mm and could not figure it out. Twist, bore size, bullet diameter, etc were all no help, but changing powder did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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